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goose View Drop Down
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:54
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

What are you talking about? You say it's impossible to convert lyrics into English without losing meaning, but if someone's native language isn't English, he has to convert his ideas into English, losing just as much, if not more, meaning. I honestly thought you were trolling at first...

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

Doesn't that mean when one makes a song in English, one's saying that people who don't speak English don't deserve it?

You might want to look at http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

I have no idea where the sources are but it tied in with what my ideas were...



Edited by goose
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Points: 2771 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:54
Originally posted by paulindigo paulindigo wrote:


2) if you don't find an English translation of Italian lyrics, why don't
you learm Italian? Mastering other foreign languages than English is
always useful in life, you never know where you might end up one
day! My little German helped me a lot in Eatsern Europe some years
ago...


Brings me back to my original question ... is there a site where I can get the lyrics in the original Italian? Then I can use a translator programme and maybe pick up a little along the way ... as I listen to this songs ... do you know how hard it is trying to sing along to Leonardo Sasso when you don't know what words he's saying?
"Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.”

"No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present."
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Points: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:39
[QUOTE=Poxx]

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer
of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.


But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that
people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

[/
QUOTE]
1) I thought the debate was about lyrics and not music, if you don't
understand MUSIC when the LYRICS are in another language that's
your problem, mate, not the music's...
2) if you don't find an English translation of Italian lyrics, why don't
you learm Italian? Mastering other foreign languages than English is
always useful in life, you never know where you might end up one
day! My little German helped me a lot in Eatsern Europe some years
ago...
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:48
This is like having a debate with a Creationist. No point even trying. Let him believe what he wants. It is completely laughable.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:30
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.



BOLLOCKS.
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:18

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:03
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.


MUSIC is a thing we can all enjoy. Just because an artist happens to sing in a different languge doesn't detract from the music. Besides, like what Man Overboard says...No-one really has anything intresting to sing anymore...haha


Ok,so it says you're from Denmark. I'd hate to be in a local band playing with you in the audience...Can't you just accept that people might like to prefer singing in their native tongue?

What you are saying is hilariously absurd.
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:49
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.


Then invent a language the whole world speaks. If every band sang in English you'd still be excluding the majority of the world.
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:46
Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.

Edited by Poxx
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:44

Me, I'm some sort of purist snob; I always like to hear the records in the original language. Like with PFM and Le Orme, and I don't have to understand them. My Latin is well enough to understand some of it, enough of it. thank you very much  Sorry, just feeling superior to the masses, horrible isn't it  ?

It's fun, though, to hear Peter Gabriel sing Games without frontiers etc. in German ( he did his 3rd en 4th studioalbum in German too). Sorry, that shouldn't be funny, but it just sounds funny, the way he did that  .
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:43
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Posts like this really depress me.

I have this thing, where I use improper language to cover the blatant truth, offending inferior minds in the process, for the sole purpose of amusement. Don't be one of them.



It's not the swearing that upsets me - I swear all the time (had some posts edited because of it!). What upsets me is your attitude.
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firth_of_Fifth View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:39
Ok, what about traditional irish music? Should they sing that in english just to please people who don't understand and can't just accept it for it's beauty?

I can't bloody understand it. They could be singing about drowning babies and it still sounds amazing.

You know, some people might prefer singing in their natural language?
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:37
Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Posts like this really depress me.

I have this thing, where I use improper language to cover the blatant truth, offending inferior minds in the process, for the sole purpose of amusement. Don't be one of them.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:37
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Originally posted by firth_of_Fifth firth_of_Fifth wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Why does everyone have to sing in english?

You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator.

ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english

I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

Bands don't "have to" sing in English, but the thing is if they don't, it's quite often because they are unable to. Singing in English, allows for the most people to hace a chance of understanding the lyrics, should they give a damn.



Could you be a little less agressive please? Especially in my threads.
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:34
Originally posted by firth_of_Fifth firth_of_Fifth wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Why does everyone have to sing in english?

You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator.

ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english

I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

Bands don't "have to" sing in English, but the thing is if they don't, it's quite often because they are unable to. Singing in English, allows for the most people to hace a chance of understanding the lyrics, should they give a damn.
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Points: 3830 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:30
It all depends...  Opeth, The Flower Kings, Pain Of Salvation, Anekdoten, and many other favorites of mine don't sing in their native language, and I still love it...

...on the other hand, I also adore many groups who don't sing in English, like Banco. 

To be perfectly honest, I almost always listen to the voice as another instrument, even if it's in English...  I'm not a big fan of lyrics, most lyrics suck.  The melody and delivery is more important, I'd rather hear bad lyrics with good melody/delivery than good lyrics delivered plainly.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:28
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Posts like this really depress me.
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firth_of_Fifth View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:25
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Why does everyone have to sing in english?

You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator.

ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english

I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 443 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:18
No problem for me, do you understand Kobaian?
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Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:29

Originally posted by WiguJimbo WiguJimbo wrote:

I usually prefer bands that sing in their native language instead of trying to sing in English and sounding ridiculous.. But it's the music that matters to me! 

 

I agree. English crunched up by non-native English speakers/singers, sounds unsophisticated and too often jarring, and found amongst usually very sophisticated instrumental playing and arrangements. There are only a few European bands that sing English convincingly, Anekdoten, Ibis (on Sun Supreme), and Wigwam employed a Brit vocalist. Too often prog lyrics in whatever language are abstract, metaphysical and often twaddle, so does it matter that jibberish is sung in English (Accrington branch), Gaelic or Russian, or the 357th dialect of Urdu?
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