The Symphony

presdoug wrote: Rick Robson wrote: Hey Doug, I've been so keen on Bruckner's music again... and as I told you, recently had acquired that Bruckner Symphony Nr.7 conducted by Karajan, so today I listened for the second time to the whole Bruckner Symphony Nr.7, oh man I'm glad to be already overwhelmed by another amazing travel through such profound emotions translated into an awesomely complex music!, as usual when it comes to Bruckner's music, such is the expressive power I find in his symphonies, often in such a stunningly dramatic form!       Impressed too with the majestic second movement's groundbreaking melodies. It was unique the pleasing peace I felt after this awesome musical journey... to say the least., I'm very happy that another symphony of him is beginning to grow on me. Just can't wait to have my Bruckner 7th conducted by Knappertsbusch.     Finished today's Bruckner journey listening to the 8th and 5th, such an incredible strength I find in them!... What a groundbreaking way that the 5th starts!, these perhaps my favourites, or rather being honest I guess I have to listen to all of them a thousand times in order to know which are my favourite(s), not to say for finding the most subtle differences between recordings .         That is wonderful, Ric. I concurr with the interesting and insightful comments you make about the Master's works. Every time I hear a Bruckner Symphony recording, I, too, come away with something further.

I've heard for the first time some versions of some of my favourite symphonies, that never sounded so good!

presdoug wrote: Bruckner 9-conducted by Eduard van Beinum (1956)

 
Eagerly looking forward to achieving the whole set of Bruckner's symphonies... What a treasure!..


Edited by Rick Robson - February 25 2015 at 06:21

Just ordered.

^^Bruckner nick-named his 5th Symphony his "Fantastic", in recognition of Berlioz. Yes, Bruckner's 5th is so special, it's kind of in a class of it's own. One of the most "Germanic" or "teutonic" symphonies ever written. I also read that Shostakovich admired Bruckner's 5th.

Wow! I had not realized so clearly as now how the same symphony could sound SO different performed by different conductors and orchestras. Maybe differently for each listener, but I'm feeling really so glad after having another incredible experience when listening to Bruckner's 7th, man those such a beautiful and intense melodies sounded so clear and heartfelt in the recording of Knappertsbusch conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker!, so differently from the approach of Karajan's recording (with BPO) ... I'm stunned, especially the 3rd and 4th movements as a whole, but as well particularly the instruments individually played more intensely this majestic music.

 

Anyway, on the other hand I always loved Karajan's rather dramatic approach, sometimes more loudly too. I heard in a classical radio (Simfini) that the more well known recordings belong to the Historical Performances catalogue (as Knappertsbusch's), is that true Doug? Anyways I think these listening experiences can vary according to each listener, there are incredible amounts of subtle nuances that together can cause different impressions imo.

 

Edited by Rick Robson - March 10 2015 at 19:50

Great to see a thread like this on PA!  I have long considered the symphony to be the highest, most perfect form of musical expression.  My top ten desert island symphonies are:

Bruckner 9th - Hard to choose between the 8th and the 9th.  They are both works of sublime vision and beauty but the 9th seems more profound--a greater sense of titanic struggle--followed by such peaceful resolution even though the work was never finished.  It was so radical that his "friends" meddled with the score, removing the genius and sharp edges that make this such a phenomenal accomplishment.  Conducted by Herbert von Karajan of course!

I consider any of the Bruckner symphonies from 4-6 as fabulous, and 7-8 as close seconds to the 9th.  In some ways, the 7 and 8 seem to lead to the 9th as the final statement of his vision.

Beethoven 9th - Another work of titanic vision.  Profound, otherworldly, composed by a man who was deaf!

The Eroica (3rd) symphony as a very close second.  Beethoven simply threw out classical symphonic form and chartered his own course to the Romantic area.

In no special order:

Symphony 5 - Ralph Vaughan Williams.  Aaron Copland hated this symphony and compared it to staring at a cow!  In it I find tranquility and great beauty.

Symphony 5 - Shostakovitch.  Immensely powerful and rebellious, the composer's not so subtle answer to artistic repression in communist Russia.

Symphony 9 - Dvorak.  The last and best symphony of a homesick composer at the top of his game.  The second movement is one of the most beautiful compositions in classical music.  The 7th and 8th are also wonderful works.

Plus: Mozart 40th, Brahms 4th, Tchaikovsky 6th, Wm Schuman 3rd, and Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms.

Cailyn wrote: Great to see a thread like this on PA!  I have long considered the symphony to be the highest, most perfect form of musical expression.  My top ten desert island symphonies are: Bruckner 9th - Hard to choose between the 8th and the 9th.  They are both works of sublime vision and beauty but the 9th seems more profound--a greater sense of titanic struggle--followed by such peaceful resolution even though the work was never finished.  It was so radical that his "friends" meddled with the score, removing the genius and sharp edges that make this such a phenomenal accomplishment.  Conducted by Herbert von Karajan of course! I consider any of the Bruckner symphonies from 4-6 as fabulous, and 7-8 as close seconds to the 9th.  In some ways, the 7 and 8 seem to lead to the 9th as the final statement of his vision. Beethoven 9th - Another work of titanic vision.  Profound, otherworldly, composed by a man who was deaf! The Eroica (3rd) symphony as a very close second.  Beethoven simply threw out classical symphonic form and chartered his own course to the Romantic area. In no special order: Symphony 5 - Ralph Vaughan Williams.  Aaron Copland hated this symphony and compared it to staring at a cow!  In it I find tranquility and great beauty. Symphony 5 - Shostakovitch.  Immensely powerful and rebellious, the composer's not so subtle answer to artistic repression in communist Russia. Symphony 9 - Dvorak.  The last and best symphony of a homesick composer at the top of his game.  The second movement is one of the most beautiful compositions in classical music.  The 7th and 8th are also wonderful works. Plus: Mozart 40th, Brahms 4th, Tchaikovsky 6th, Wm Schuman 3rd, and Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms.

 
Glad to hear it! And welcome aboard! 
 
Yeah for me too yours is a very especial selection of great symphonies you posted, and I would add others as well from Beethoven, Berlioz, Mahler, Strauss,... well, there are so many more still to know...
 
I still don't know Bruckner's 9th, but of course it's the first I'm looking forward to. And Beethoven's 9th is one of those symphonies which overwhelmed me the few times I listened to it (comparing to the others), sure that I'm still discovering this Beethoven's wonder, such a strong symphony, I also think that perhaps it's one of the strongest, to say the least!  Yeah I love the Eroica too, and also agree that Beethoven's 1 and 2 clearly show that Mozart's initial influence on him, they have this especial atmosphere which I do love.    



Edited by Rick Robson - March 11 2015 at 16:49

Rick Robson wrote: presdoug wrote: Rick Robson wrote: Wow! I had not realized so clearly as now how the same symphony could sound SO different performed by different conductors and orchestras. Maybe differently for each listener, but I'm feeling really so glad after having another incredible experience when listening to Bruckner's 7th, man those such a beautiful and intense melodies sounded so clear and heartfelt in the recording of Knappertsbusch conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker!, so differently from the approach of Karajan's recording (with BPO) ... I'm stunned, especially the 3rd and 4th movements as a whole, but as well particularly the instruments individually played more intensely this majestic music.   Anyway, on the other hand I always loved Karajan's rather dramatic approach, sometimes more loudly too. I heard in a classical radio (Simfini) that the more well known recordings belong to the Historical Performances catalogue (as Knappertsbusch's), is that true Doug? Anyways I think these listening experiences can vary according to each listener, there are incredible amounts of subtle nuances that together can cause different impressions imo.   You are so right, Ric, how important is the interpretation, and how different they can be...Knappertsbusch has the sonorities of Bruckner's 7th down perfectly. I do like Karajan's Bruckner 7th, though, but as you point out it is a different thing, more lush and beautiful, but not quite so Germanic or Wagnerian as Knappertsbusch's approach.                       That is interesting what you heard on the radio about Historical Performances being more well known; someone at progressiveears asserted that with me but I don't believe it. I have been told by more than one employee at Ottawa's premier Classical Music store (now out of business, unfortunately) that most people come in looking for "digital sound" and that sound quality is most important to most people. I think many still have this cliche image of older recordings as being "tinny and hard to appreciate". They don't know what they are missing in many cases.   Right  on, Doug, I didn't get all of what the conductor of the radio said about The Historical Performances, but it's more than clear for me too that they might be very especial indeed, to say the least, as it really is this one by Knappertsbusch, for me. I guess that in these performances they tried to reproduce the sounds that most fit to what the composers wanted to and to how they sounded at the time they composed it and performed by the orchestras of those times, don't you think so? You said it very well: people really don't know what they are missing!...

I think you have pointed out something important about these "old school" conductors. They were around when some of the composers they focused on lived (for example, the late Romantic ones); they either heard them conduct their own works, or knew directly people that did. And also probably got a chance to conduct actual orchestras that had been conducted by, let's say, Bruckner or Mahler or Wagner, to name a few. For example, Knappertsbusch was born in 1888, when Bruckner, Brahms, the Strauss's, and Sibelius and Tchaikovsky were still alive. (Wagner had just died in 1883) Composers like Elgar, Debussy, and Delius were alive but had not come into their own as composers yet. Conductors like Knappertsbusch sure lived through some vitally important and pivotal times in the music world. There were the horrors of 2 world wars during his lifetime, but he survived it all, and so did his great music making in his recordings.

Edited by presdoug - March 12 2015 at 07:15