Has the flame finally gone out?

Prog has as many lives as it has potential movements per song. :)

Yes, the flame has finally gone out; fortunately, we have other technological means -- someone hand the gentleman a flashlight!

Just got the latest issue of Gaffa, a non-genre-specific Danish music magazine.

Their "top 30 of 2014" list includes Mogwai and Swans, as well as Sunn O)))'s collaboration with Scott Walker there's the regular mentions of Mastodon and other newer hybrid genre bands with a certain degree of mainstream crossover popularity. Among the positive reviews include those of some more experimentally minded. The one of the new Pink Floyd album is somewhat lukewarm.

I think the issue is that while 1960s/1970s-style progressive/psychedelic rock has experienced a surge in popularity, it's still as a niche audience except a handful of crossover artists compared to the high level of mainstream popularity it had back in its "golden age". What further complicates the whole question is whether to include distantly related genres, or musicians that might have a similar avantgarde/experimental ethos, into the "progressive music" category even if their music does not bear much of an apparent resemblance to the origin in terms of actual style. If you want to be glib, you could call it the difference between "progressive" and "prog". The former would refer to the ethos, the latter to the style.

When it comes to the metal scene doing much of the heavy lifting (pun not intended) with keeping instrumentally complex or interesting guitar music alive, there's also the further complication that it's currently going through a major retro/oldschool revivalist phase which often takes a rather anti-intellectual turn, or at least suspicion towards bands whose aesthetic frame of reference gets too close to "high culture". The consequence is that the prog/avantgarde metal scene now seems to be increasingly segregated audience-wise from the "regular" metal scene as much as from the prog rock scene, with the exception of those bands who either have enough street cred through connection to the old school (e. g. Virus) or are sufficiently "true" in their imagery/aesthetic (e. g. Morbus Chron). I think rogerthat mentioned that earlier in the thread...

Star_Song_Age_Less wrote: Finnforest wrote: Years ago, several friends and I would gather every weekend at one dude's house for either a jam (we all played instruments), or, just to kick back and listen to an album and party.  Or watch a live DVD.  And the thing is, while the music played, there was respect for it.  You didn't talk,  you listened.  After the album was over, then you talked.  So there would be this great dynamic of partying with a group of people and experiencing music together, almost like a live show, but in his enormous basement with an amazing stereo system and killer speakers in 4 corners.  The large room was free of any objects and rock posters adorned the walls.  Active listening music is the term.  There is no one - absolutely no one - within six hours of me (that I know) who would be willing to do this.  And that makes me sad.  I have to sit in a room alone with headphones to get the musical experience. I even had a music teacher (a university music teacher who conducts band and plays instruments, etc.) say this to me: "You listen to music with your eyes closed and headphones on?  That's too intense for me."  I was too surprised to respond.  Maybe he was pulling my leg.

Even back then it wasn't exactly easy.  Some human beings are almost physically incapable of active listening for 40 minutes, let alone listening as a group with others for 40 minutes without speaking.  Those were some exquisite evenings.  Following the music came hours of good conversation and then trying to pilot home at 3am.  I miss those days.  Sentimental hygiene to borrow a phrase from Warren Zevon

Guldbamsen wrote: I've been thinking about this thread. It's brought back a lot of memories I've shared with friends and like-minded souls. -Listening to music whilst being drunk or high or nothing at all but still completely taken aback by the sheer force of music. I'd hate to think that the ritual of sitting down silently and immersing oneself into music, on some kind of a spiritual level, is a fading fad. Then again, whenever I pay a visit to Copenhagen to see friends and experience music, rock, jazz or a huge electronic event in the woods, I still bump into people who share my passion for music. Often they're only attuned into one kind of style though, but the will to explore is certainly there.

Boy am I with you in spirit David.  Years ago, several friends and I would gather every weekend at one dude's house for either a jam (we all played instruments), or, just to kick back and listen to an album and party.  Or watch a live DVD.  And the thing is, while the music played, there was respect for it.  You didn't talk,  you listened.  After the album was over, then you talked.  So there would be this great dynamic of partying with a group of people and experiencing music together, almost like a live show, but in his enormous basement with an amazing stereo system and killer speakers in 4 corners.  The large room was free of any objects and rock posters adorned the walls.  Active listening music is the term. 

Naturally, someone's overly drunk friend would also show up who didn't care about music, and that guy would try to blab over the loud tunes....so you'd be like....what?  what? what?  Eventually our none too bashful host would tell the guy....hey, pipe down man till the music stops. 

That group has mostly scattered now but I keep the spirit alive.  When I listen to music it is as reverential as it always way.  Music is as important to my happiness as food, almost.  If I were ever cast into a jail cell with no access to music....I would access the jukebox in my head all day long.  I have such a large collection in there I could rock out for a life sentence

I failed to mention that these narrow-minded attitudes about music exist in many generations of people. It's some sort of snobby attitude existing between the performer and the audience for centuries. Imagine being like a Mozart and putting up with jealous attitudes from your peers and disregard that observation for a moment and consider the high percentage of Classical music community who have taken it upon themselves to form harsh attitudes about energy forces that flow through a musician playing a DIFFERENT style of music. The disrespect for Progressive Rock, Folk, Jazz and Blues revolving around their personal belief that music must be perfect in the Classical world. Other styles of music dismiss these practices because the musician's goal to obtain is found through experimentation. When I was a kid and grew up around Classical music teachers it was extremely difficult to have a conversation WITH them on the subject matter of other styles of music. I would often be told ...by them..that the music I listened to was primitive and additionally that Keith Emerson was a disgrace to the Classical world because of his fusing Rock music with music of the fine Classical composers. Most of them thought he was a "rocker" with antics and a complete fool. This attitude existed in 70' and 71' when ELP were becoming part of the norm. 

Yeah, I get the impression overall that the metal culture is nowhere as open to outside-the-box thinking in music as it was 4 years ago with most of the acclaimed new bands being retro throwbacks now.

Although this is not a discussion about Dream Theater I would like to say that their back catalogue has quite an extreme split musically for me. I like Awake , Six Degrees, A Change Of Seasons and Octovarium and would regards those as at least 4 star releases but there are those that feel if they were just chucked out. I only point this out as to me not all DT output is the same but people talk about them as if that were so.

Star_Song_Age_Less wrote: Lyrics often good

I think it's dangerous putting labels on music at times.  For instance, I was watching McCartney's Wings "Rock Show" and they play "Band on the Run" with all those changes, and Denny is playing a double neck guitar and you hear the Moog and Paul with a LH Rickenbacker.  It's very prog, and looks very vintage prog and you see all these big Marshall stacks in the back.  It's live, very open and it's a band playing naturally in the moment without conservation or protection.  But what you have with Wings are some great songs.  Maybe I'm Amazed is one of my favorite songs.  It's a beautiful song, great structure, very well thought out with memorable passages and that great guitar solo that I am going to remember far longer than some pretentious guitar hero shredding a bunch of mindless notes across 11/8 meter.  Paul's bass lines walk around a lot like Squire's do and I am sure Squire was heavily influenced by how Paul played. 

However, Paul would play a lot of simple stuff and balanced his act out with less prog and more pop to play into the audience.  He certainly could have gone full prog post Beatles, but was always more interested in the bigger picture of writing great songs first, and if prog passages were needed to create and fulfill the piece then he would use them, but to me he did so in a much more tasteful way than say ELP. 

I don't need 3 hours of complexity to enjoy a rock show.  I do need some.  I respect a band that can do it, but I respect a band more for using restraint also. 

Another example is The Elton John Band.  Funeral for a Friend is about as prog as a song can get.  But it's a great piece of music.  All the notes and the arrangement and playing work toward the feeling of the piece, the lyric and are tied conceptually with proper intention.  But Elton's contributions to prog go unnoticed because he didn't follow the formula put down by the other prog groups from that era.  YES and GENESIS, TULL and FLOYD were the most successful and for good reason.  They delivered the whole package, lyric, concept, music that worked toward fulfilling the intention of the writer, the feeling and emotion.  As soon as it becomes a chops fest game over.  It's immature to do that, lacks confidence, class and looses the audience in most cases.