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Topic ClosedDoes Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?

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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 16:30
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

However I'm now wondering why Elton John is not included and perhaps a few other artists spring to mind. You may want to grab the nearest available 60ft barge pole.Wink


oh sure. there are a good number of artists that could, IMO SHOULD, be included here.  However I've taken my cue from Raff, or her from me as she knows my feelings on this, my days of trying to help complete what the site started, but never fully realized, are over. I have the scars to show for my efforts hahaha. I'm just here for the beer and chicks and to give cyber hot-feet to old friends, and new ones.

However IMO the site is not a prog rock website, it LONG since stopped being  that, being thatt fully half perhaps more of the artists here have little direct connection to the prog rock scene of the 70's, they have been declared by some cat to be prog but really are more.. progressive rock artists. Prog like any musical form has its cliches and formulas and the 70's bands played that vein till it bled dry. That is why so many either moved on, or mutated with the times.  Recognzing that is what the site sort of slid towards but never fully accepted it, and probably kept its head in the sand while still thinking it was a prog rock website when very little of it is prog.  Leading minds, and I agree with them think that prog rock is merely a subset of a larger and much more diverse style called progressive rock.

my two cents as always. More opinions than sense... but it makes the internet fun.


In the end, I'm glad the site is more inclusive and not restricted to "classic", "prog rock", "70s", what have you.  There's a lot of great music I've found here due to the site's inclusive nature.


Thumbs Up not just that Pat but also the interesting and varied fans the site draws in of those groups or musical styles the site highlites but are not considered 'prog rock' but definitely fall under the larger progressive rock umbrella, or if one was to include RIO or the electronic stuff... the even larger progressive MUSIC umbrella which the site covers well.  that is why my butt still burns to see the whole 'it is not prog' thing tossed about. Outside of the sympho-maniacs one could argue that bucket just doesn't hold any water. Well then anything outiside of symph, RPI, and (perhaps haha) f**king Neo is not prog either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 16:51
I will add something to what my other half has already admirably stated: the best new prog bands are very different to whatever stereotype of "classic" prog still survives, on this site or elsewhere. In fact, many of them would not even be called prog according to the "old" criteria. True, there are more than enough bands or artists that churn out well-executed, yet hopelessly derivative stuff for those fans who seem to be stuck in a time warp. However, the stuff that tends NOT to fly under my radar is very much of the "crossover" quality.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:02
I remember well that interesting discussion we (believe it was Brian and me) had here, it was the one time I ducked back into PA's after we retired, when Nearfest crashed and Farfest burned up on the runway...(the year, 2012, that 'Prog' officially died btw) many bands realize in order to survive and prosper you simply can't churn out the same bullsh*t 70's derivative stuff.. ie Prog Rock...it has been done.. and done FAR FAR better already.  Sure we get submissions and bands play that.. good luck finding an audience for it.. the gen pop don't care, and many prog fans don't even care since you are not a NAME group.

Prog fan is a dying breed and has proved by the lack of support to other groups to not give a goddamn about music outside of their nostalgia zone, however there exists a much larger underground movement, which we have been involved with, that supports and encourages progressive music artists and that is where the direction of the music is going and yes... much of it lies in the crossover vein. Others like the brilliant guys (and lady!) from Moraine have tapped into Chinese folk and classical music as an influence and the result are mindblowing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:22
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

I will add something to what my other half has already admirably stated: the best new prog bands are very different to whatever stereotype of "classic" prog still survives, on this site or elsewhere. In fact, many of them would not even be called prog according to the "old" criteria. True, there are more than enough bands or artists that churn out well-executed, yet hopelessly derivative stuff for those fans who seem to be stuck in a time warp. However, the stuff that tends NOT to fly under my radar is very much of the "crossover" quality.
 
ClapClap
 
I enjoy a lot bands like Haken, Echolyn and the recent Anathema efforts....but I personally struggle calling it prog and even trying to describe the music to someone else, I find myself using words like alternative, ambient rock....I will have to also use crossover going forward.
 
Just the other day someone on another website asked me if I had bought the new prog album by Flying Colors...In the classic vein I don't think it is prog at all. Today's world I think it is more alternative rock with a dash of traditional hard rock.
 
But that is just me......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 18:02
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

^ who says that in order to be progressive metal you need keyboards?

It seems that you have not listened much to Iron Maiden since Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son are actually full of keyboards.

Prog-related is a great fit for them.

no keyboards are present , they actually use guitar synths but otherwise I agree with your basic point

Tells you how little difference I find between keyboards and guitar synths... Embarrassed same result to my ears!

Wiki says otherwise but would not take it for granted:
Stylistically, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son developed the sounds first heard on Somewhere in Time, although, on this occasion, the synth effects were created by keyboards rather than bass or guitar synthesisers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Son_of_a_Seventh_Son#Personnel


Edited by aapatsos - October 28 2014 at 18:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 02:32
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

^ who says that in order to be progressive metal you need keyboards?

It seems that you have not listened much to Iron Maiden since Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son are actually full of keyboards.

Prog-related is a great fit for them.

no keyboards are present , they actually use guitar synths but otherwise I agree with your basic point

Tells you how little difference I find between keyboards and guitar synths... Embarrassed same result to my ears!

Wiki says otherwise but would not take it for granted:
Stylistically, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son developed the sounds first heard on Somewhere in Time, although, on this occasion, the synth effects were created by keyboards rather than bass or guitar synthesisers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Son_of_a_Seventh_Son#Personnel

not very helpfully the sleevenotes say

Adrian Smith - Synth
Steve Harris - String Synth

What is a string synth?!

I would take 'Synth' as being of the keyboard variety therefore I think Wiki is right and I am wrong. Damn!LOL 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 14:45
I found this interview interesting

Michael Kenney, the man behind the keys Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 17:24
Good interviewThumbs Up


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 17:28
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Fearabsentia Fearabsentia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

I don't think Phil Collins destroyed prog, you could say the same thing about any other pop artist. I don't like any pop music, I think it's one of the worst genres of music; however, if we have every other member of Genesis we should have Phil Collins in prog related. 


Sorry just my silly sense of humour. I wasn't being serious. Phil and also that great eighties prog supergroup that inspired him Earth,Wind and Fire should definitely be included asap.Wink

Sorry, I thought you were serious Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:04
Iron Maiden is metal devoid of blues! They only deserve to be 'related'! Angry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:15
hah.  The only keeping Iron Maiden from Prog Metal is the great songwriting and emphasis on tasteful playing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:17
^And they can play well too! Angry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 22:37
Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

I honestly think Iron Maiden belongs more in Prog Metal then just Related.

What do all of you think?
Unitron, I think Iron Maiden (to me) is not prog. But what do I know, I seriously don't know much really. Wink hugs Hug  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 05:02
They don't even belong there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2014 at 09:07
No, they're only progressive metal in rare moments. The main thread of their material, all their material, is intelligent, epic, theatrical heavy metal…but only a few truly prog moments. But then that's so subjective isn't it? The proggiest they get is stuff like "Strange World," "Prodigal Son," "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" and "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son." Steve Harris does, of course, receive bonus points for wearing a Genesis denim jacket when he was a kid, and for the good taste to cover bands such as Jethro Tull and Nektar. So yes, definitely related to our beloved prog! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 07:09
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Considering 95% of their stuff doesn't come off as prog to me at all, I would say no.

And sure Iron Maiden might have introduced many listeners to the direction that Dream Theater expanded on, but I feel like Watchtower had more of an influence than Iron Maiden on that sound.
 
I see no resemblance between IM and DT, Smurph LOLHug
Instrumentally especially not nor Jimmy the Cheese LOL I love him but I always cringe while knowing what's coming lol  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:00
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Considering 95% of their stuff doesn't come off as prog to me at all, I would say no.

And sure Iron Maiden might have introduced many listeners to the direction that Dream Theater expanded on, but I feel like Watchtower had more of an influence than Iron Maiden on that sound.
 
I see no resemblance between IM and DT, Smurph LOLHug
Instrumentally especially not nor Jimmy the Cheese LOL I love him but I always cringe while knowing what's coming lol  



I suspect DT might see matters differently though ;-)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:11
On a "related" note:


Wink
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:14
...also on a related note...


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http://www.houseofprog.com

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:16
Related? Perhaps.
I always wondered how Caravan's Nine Feet Underground would sound like in Maiden's hands.
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