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Topic ClosedExclusionsist or Inclusivist?
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Poll Question: Does Contemporary Progressive in 2014 still constitute Prog?
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9 [16.36%]
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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 03:20
I'm reminded of this thread I started a while ago, which had a similar thrust but perhaps went off the rails by focusing too narrowly on the role of influence from classical music in the classic British progressive rock sound.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 03:24
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

The thing about "post-rock" is that just like "shoegaze" or "grunge" it was originally coined by music reviewers to describe several disparate music styles and associated social subcultures that all rejected the categorization so I'm kind of uncomfortable using it as a genre classification. However, certain post-rock groups like Tortoise or Trans-Am for instance have an obvious influence from Krautrock and I think if something like Can belongs they do as well.
The thing about "Krautrock" is that just like "shoegaze" or "grunge" it was originally coined by music reviewers to describe several disparate music styles and associated social subcultures that all rejected the categorization so I'm kind of uncomfortable using it as a genre classification. Geek
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 03:32
Quote originally posted by uduwudu 

 It's a new authenticity

 

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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 03:33
Yeah, I temporarily forgot the Germans themselves preferred to call it "Kosmische Musik" or just refer to regional avantgarde/psychedelic scenes.

Edited by Toaster Mantis - April 17 2014 at 04:12
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 04:13
Audience are inventing all the terms as rock journalists and (or) the reviewers are also a part of the audience as well, so the musicians by themselfs do not have anything to do with that (mostly).

Edited by Svetonio - April 17 2014 at 04:18
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 04:31
Musicians have a tendency to openly embrace classifications at the beginning of their careers then purposely reject them later. This is understandable and to be expected - they want the recognition that being part of a "scene" brings then want freedom from it once it becomes (artistically) restricting. SWilson is a classic example of that.
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 04:31
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Oh ! That sort of 'pot' noodle - silly me..........
......yes indeed, plenty of that on Topographic, and that's what makes it soooo enjoyable !! Though I couldn't see Wakeman toking on a J.


Yep, Rick appears to have been an old school beer monster in his youth (which may have led to his feeling somewhat excluded from the recreational core activity of his band mates at around this time? - there is no more tortuous and futile an exchange of ideas than that which takes place between the intoxicated and the stonedDead)


... Parliamentary debates notwithstanding. Of course they could be both (stoned or intoxicated as well as... etc...) Sorry, could not resist that. Let's get back to defending false dichotomies. There I go again... God, I can't seem to get away from any opportunity to Sl*g off those which seek power over us. Dead

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OK, just to add fuel to the fire how does one tell that say prog rock however well, quasi or ill defined, has progressed? From what to what? Making it as good as the Prokofiev playing hear at the moment?

IOW accepting that in the late 70s there was a collapse in prog rock, was there a progression consequently, how are these things identified? To me most symphonic rock (not metal) became a style of playing (inclusivistically oriented)  rather than a sense of hearing something new (exclusionistically oriented). Should this be tried? Is it commercially viable? Should an audience be challenged?

Btw I am not that certain about the i and e word variations I have used above. As a non-expert at everything I'll stand be corrected.Ouch




I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What I think we're saying is that Prog has NOT progressed due to a seismic shift in the market place/demographic circa 1980 so we're asking ourselves what is the relationship between the Progressive Rock music that continues to emerge post 1980 to the original Prog bands of the 70's (I think? and maybe also what does Prokofiev living to 123 years old have to do with getting back on topic - he should be decomposing by then surely?Confused)


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 17 2014 at 04:33
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infocat View Drop Down
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Musicians have a tendency to openly embrace classifications at the beginning of their careers then purposely reject them later. This is understandable and to be expected - they want the recognition that being part of a "scene" brings then want freedom from it once it becomes (artistically) restricting. SWilson is a classic example of that.
Seems to me that SW went the other way.  When he started PT he did not like to be classified as Prog Rock.  But now he seems to embrace it.  That's my recollection, anyway.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 04:17
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Musicians have a tendency to openly embrace classifications at the beginning of their careers then purposely reject them later. This is understandable and to be expected - they want the recognition that being part of a "scene" brings then want freedom from it once it becomes (artistically) restricting. SWilson is a classic example of that.
Seems to me that SW went the other way.  When he started PT he did not like to be classified as Prog Rock.  But now he seems to embrace it.  That's my recollection, anyway.
Over his long career he's vacillated hot and cold several times and not just on Prog.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15921 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 05:30
It sux to even pigeonhole anything as there will always be those who will never see eye to eye on many levels, we just need a 'tag' to identify whatever it is, thus it's a catch-22, rendering my comment somewhat moot.
DSOTM is a darn fine album, even a good friend of mine who I never really thought would go for it much embraced it. That is, until his 2nd car crash, when Money was playing on the radio.......his first crash, Money was playing on the radio. True story. He can't listen to DSOTM anymore.
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