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Topic ClosedIs there a way to add Trevor Rabin as an artist?

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Kentucky_Hawkwindage View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 20:25
I've got that LP of Rabin's in my collection i bought when it first came out.I haven't listened to it in eon's,but i recall one song was on there i really liked,i think it even got airplay for very brief period,can't remember the name of the song now...Maybe was Something To Hold On To? Or something like that hell i can't recall now.

Edited by Kentucky_Hawkwindage - March 13 2014 at 20:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 20:45
I guess I should add my two cents here.

I make no secret that I'm not nearly the expert in the greater art rock scene as some of the guys here, David and Dean namely, seeing as I just don't have the experience and the time I've spent becoming well versed in music has been in the direct prog scene. 

As for Trevor Rabin, I was surprised that he wasn't on here when I first heard his 2012 album Jacaranda. It's about as textbook prog as it comes, with an AOR edge. Had he been in ELP in the 70s instead of Emerson, I suspect their music would have sounded very much like this song:

If we look at the definition of crossover we have here, "Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts," at the very least Jacaranda fits this description.

Now I have little to no knowledge of the rest of his solo career, and the only other thing I know of him is obviously his membership in 80s Yes and Asia. Whether his solo material from the 70s and 80s was pure pop rock/AOR, I don't know, but in the context of this evaluation, it matters little. He's been cleared for crossover and as an admin I see no issue with this. Will this anger some members? Probably, but no more than Tori Amos, Bjork, and Nine Inch Nails, who are no more progressive than Rabin. So to answer the question the OP posed, yes, there is away for him to be added. And he probably will be in a few days.


Edited by Andy Webb - March 13 2014 at 20:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 21:15
I haven't heard this album, but if the guy made a "prog rock" album as determined by the relevant folks here than I support his addition.  And I really am no fan of Trevor Rabin, and I think this is what happens.  There's an association, a connotation with certain artists that gets everyone up in arms about adding them to the site, particularly if their back catalog is not prog rock.  If this guy was named Tom Smith and this was his first album he'd be added with no fuss.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 21:18
^Well put. That's the issue, really, is whether we should look at his catalog as a whole or just this one album - even still I think he holds up fine under both conditions. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 21:21
Oh boy, have we had that argument many times before. Imagine the reaction if some fule decided that Yanni had made one prog album. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2014 at 21:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh boy, have we had that argument many times before. Imagine the reaction if some fule decided that Yanni had made one prog album. LOL

I have a hard enough time dealing with Vangelis.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 00:07
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I haven't heard this album, but if the guy made a "prog rock" album as determined by the relevant folks here than I support his addition.  And I really am no fan of Trevor Rabin, and I think this is what happens.  There's an association, a connotation with certain artists that gets everyone up in arms about adding them to the site, particularly if their back catalog is not prog rock.  If this guy was named Tom Smith and this was his first album he'd be added with no fuss.

Absolutely right and we have 1000's of those


Anyway if it all gets too much and repetitive for some you can always go here:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=78




Edited by Chris S - March 14 2014 at 00:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 00:43
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh boy, have we had that argument many times before. Imagine the reaction if some fule decided that Yanni had made one prog album. LOL

Yanni making a prog album is a horrifying theoretic possibility.   Or Barry Manilow.   You know the Manilow Theory:  Make a hundred albums and one of 'ems gotta be Prog Wink.   Is there a contingency plan for just such a catastophic Constitutional crisis ?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 02:55
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh boy, have we had that argument many times before. Imagine the reaction if some fule decided that Yanni had made one prog album. LOL

Yanni making a prog album is a horrifying theoretic possibility.   Or Barry Manilow.   You know the Manilow Theory:  Make a hundred albums and one of 'ems gotta be Prog Wink.   Is there a contingency plan for just such a catastophic Constitutional crisis ?



Sure, there is a switch in the Admin control panel that when flipped turns on an automated ignore feature, this works by constantly scanning the forum for negative opinions on artist additions and the review database for people who rate entire discographies of an artist with low ratings, it then takes two courses of action:
  1. It automatically hides the posts of those people on that artist.
  2. It hides the contentious artist pages from those people.
This means the people who complain think the artist has been deleted and the rest of us don't have to put up with their moaning, and Andy, Keishiro and David can carry on doing the sterling job they do without having to put up with this BS. Approve



Edited by Dean - March 14 2014 at 02:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 03:39
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:



Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I haven't heard this album, but if the guy made a "prog rock" album as determined by the relevant folks here than I support his addition.  And I really am no fan of Trevor Rabin, and I think this is what happens.  There's an association, a connotation with certain artists that gets everyone up in arms about adding them to the site, particularly if their back catalog is not prog rock.  If this guy was named Tom Smith and this was his first album he'd be added with no fuss.


Absolutely right and we have 1000's of those
Anyway if it all gets too much and repetitive for some you can always go here:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=78

WARNING! here's another sworn enemy of Bandcamp Recommendations thread
Btw Chris, why you don't post the link that it works, like this http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=78
I can see that a lot of PA members doesn't care if the links what they posted doesn't work. That's a really shame.

Edited by Svetonio - March 14 2014 at 03:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 03:54
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

(...) Under the site guidelines, if an artist has one album that is fully prog, then they belong here.
 (...)


That was under the site guidelines 'till the management changed the definition. As per new definition, Trevor Robin belongs here as same as Phil Collins.

Prog Related definition



No musical genre exists in a vacuum. Not all of the bands that have been a part of the history and development of progressive rock are necessarily progressive rock bands themselves. This is why progarchives has included a genre called prog-related, so we could include all the bands that complete the history of progressive rock, whether or not they were considered full-fledged progressive rock bands themselves.

There are many criteria that the prog-related evaluation team considers when deciding which bands are considered prog-related. Very few bands will meet all of this criteria, but this list will give an idea as to some of the things that help evaluate whether an artists is prog-related or not.

1) Influence on progressive rock - The groundbreaking work of artists like Led Zepplin and David Bowie affected many genres of rock, including at times progressive rock. Although both of these artists created rock music in a dizzying array of genres, both contributed to the ongoing history of progressive rock several times within the span of their careers.

2) Location - Progressive rock did not develop at the same time all over the world. It may surprise some people that as late as the mid-70s the US had very few original progressive rock bands that did not sound like exact copies of British bands. Journey was one of the first US bands to present a uniquely American brand of prog-rock before they eventually became a mainstream rock band. We have collaborators from all over the world who tell us which bands helped the progressive rock scene develop in their corner of the globe, even if those bands were like Journey and were known more for being mainstream rock bands.

3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre.

4) Timeliness - Like many genres, prog-rock has had its ups and downs. In the late 70s and early 80s prog-rock was barely a blip on the radar. During this time artists such as David Bowie and Metallica released albums that captured key elements of the spirit of prog rock and did so while contributing their own original modern elements to the mix.

5) Integral part of the prog-rock scene - Sometimes you just had to be a part of the scene during a certain time period to understand how some bands fit with the prog rock scene of their time. Although Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Wishbone Ash may seem like mere hard rock bands, in their time they stood apart from other hard rockers with their more serious lyrical content and more developed compositions. Put simply, in the early 70s every prog-rock record collector usually had full collections of all three of these artists. These three bands were very much part of the prog-rock scene without being total prog-rock bands them selves.

6) Influenced by progressive rock - From the late 60s till about 1976 the progressive tendency was in full effect in almost all genres of music. Once again, as we enter the second decade of the 21st century a melting pot of prog-metal, math-rock, progressive electronics and post-rock influences have once again made a progressive tendency in rock music almost more a norm than a difference. Yet in other periods of musical history receiving influence from progressive rock could really set a band apart and make them worthy of our prog-related category.
Being influenced by progressive rock is hardly the only factor we look at, and in some periods of musical history it is almost meaningless, but still, it is almost a given that most of the artists listed in prog-related were influenced by the development of progressive rock.

7) Common sense - Nitpicking over the above listed criteria is not necessarily the correct way to evaluate a band for prog-related. Sometimes you just have to use some common sense and look at the big picture.
A very good way to describe prog-related would be to imagine an exhaustive book that covered the history of progressive rock. Would such a book include references to led Zeppelin's 'Stairway to Heaven', David Bowie's 'The Man Who Sold the World' or Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody'? Probably so.
- Easy M


Edited by Svetonio - March 14 2014 at 03:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 04:31
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

(...) Under the site guidelines, if an artist has one album that is fully prog, then they belong here.
 (...)


That was under the site guidelines 'till the management changed the definition. As per new definition, Trevor Robin belongs here as same as Phil Collins.

Prog Related definition


::snip::

- Easy M

Hey, ho. Sevtonio is wrong again.

Not that the "one album" rule was ever a written policy, it was a stated intention from the site owner and it applies to the Prog subgenres not the Prog Related category.

The original Prog Related definition was:
Quote Rock and Pop Bands and Artists after 1970 who were not truly “prog” (as that term is generally and broadly defined, even by the site), but who were clearly not “mainstream” or simply “rock” bands.

A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock.

Even though the music by these artists is sometimes unrelated it had things in common with prog music in that it was very structured and even adventurous, sometimes hard or heavy, sometimes mellow, strong melodies, good hooks are an integral part of most of the material. Sometimes these artists pioneered other rock genres. 

Though most of these artist can't really be considered progressive themselves, their relation to progressive music is not to be underestimated.

Garion81

It was later re-written thus to remove the "subgenre" association:
Quote Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it’s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.


Iván Melgar Morey

That was finally changed to the version we have today to limit the number of suggestions a manageable number. Without this we would become yet another RYM clone.

At no time did it ever say that an artist having one Prog album made them eligible for Prog Related.

Peace out


Edited by Dean - March 14 2014 at 04:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 05:02
'bows' thank you Dean
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 08:56
whether Rabin gets on here or not isn't going to make me like his music--but it is an interesting debate---
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 10:14
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 he should not be given a honorary place just because he was in a Prog band and a Jazz-Fusion band - he is already here in those roles, that is not a reason or justification for adding him into Prog Related.


So your argument is that he was a core member of a progressive band and a jazz fusion band and THEREFORE there is clearly nor reason or justification for adding him as a prog related artist??????

Your logic has left me speechless.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 10:22
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 he should not be given a honorary place just because he was in a Prog band and a Jazz-Fusion band - he is already here in those roles, that is not a reason or justification for adding him into Prog Related.


So your argument is that he was a core member of a progressive band and a jazz fusion band and THEREFORE there is clearly nor reason or justification for adding him as a prog related artist??????

Your logic has left me speechless.
Trevor Rabin as solo artist is not the same thing of the bands he played in. Even though I still don't understand what "prog related" means, in order to be added to this site he should have a prog output in his solo discography, regardless what he has done with his bands. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 10:58
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 he should not be given a honorary place just because he was in a Prog band and a Jazz-Fusion band - he is already here in those roles, that is not a reason or justification for adding him into Prog Related.


So your argument is that he was a core member of a progressive band and a jazz fusion band and THEREFORE there is clearly nor reason or justification for adding him as a prog related artist??????

Your logic has left me speechless.
Good. There are moments when I enjoy silence.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 11:00
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 he should not be given a honorary place just because he was in a Prog band and a Jazz-Fusion band - he is already here in those roles, that is not a reason or justification for adding him into Prog Related.


So your argument is that he was a core member of a progressive band and a jazz fusion band and THEREFORE there is clearly nor reason or justification for adding him as a prog related artist??????

Your logic has left me speechless.
Trevor Rabin as solo artist is not the same thing of the bands he played in. Even though I still don't understand what "prog related" means, in order to be added to this site he should have a prog output in his solo discography, regardless what he has done with his bands. 
I wasn't talking about Rabin.

Read the Prog Related definition, if you still don't understand what that means then Prog Related is probably not something you should spend any time on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 20:30
I have.  I take it the English is not your first language?  May I recommend dictionarycom?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2014 at 20:32
*sigh*

Ad hominem leads to a slippery slope.
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