Is classical influence essential to prog rock?

Do they even make soap boxes anymore? I mean, with the proliferation of cardboard, one has very little to stand on, both literally and metaphorically.

In regards to the recent incursions and excursions, I always appreciate Dean's irascible wit, particularly his uncanny ability to offer irascibility in polyphonic measures. Throw in a mellotron and his irascibility is progressive.

 I'll give you Zoltan but Bruford was not "classically trained".

The number of Prog musicians who were "classically trained" is a really tiny number, I hesitate to use the word "few" but few it certainly is. 

 to think that I'd make such a school boy error...

..not a chance.  

In order to understand all those google hits you actually have to follow the links and read them. Sorry Sonia, but in spite of the many google hits, Bruford was not classically trained.

I asked google if you were classically trained and got 11,500 hits.

Yes, exactly. He took a few lessons from Pocock as a school boy, that does not equate to being "classical trained". In many interviews he has said he is not trained.

 

Classical music "training" is a strange beast. Our house in Santa Barbara had over 3k albums of classical music, from the earliest you ever conceived to the latest, including Penderecki, Russell, and Stockhausen. It lacked Tomita, Riley, which I added, btw.

 

So, by the time I heard rock music, I was already familiar with Vivaldi, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky ... and you can ask. Is that "classical training". Musically speaking it is NOT. But it influenced EVERTHING I listen to and like and discuss here for the next 50 years! To me, STILL, a long piece in rock music, is no different than a concerto or a symphony. It has the same "visual story" for me, when I hear it ... I mean it has a story that my mind sees, and it's not the same of course, but it is the same in that the music LIGHTS UP my imagination.

 

It always DID, and much more so than the lyrics, because a lot of rock lyrics don't measure up, and are just empty words. You can not compare a Janis in Ball and Chain, with Jim in several pieces, and then hear Renata Tebaldi in Turandot, or Maria Callas in Carmen, or Boris Christoff in that Boris opera, and then you listen to Mick Jagger, and it's hard to take him seriously, in 9 out of 10 songs!

 

In that sense, for me, it is an influence, as to how some instrumentation was used and such, up to and including a voice, but we're taking this to mean note by note and by note and staff, and I doubt that half the music in progressive was even down on a piece of paper until after it was done! In this sense, Dean was right, that most of it was a riff this or that, and it was developed or changed into something else, although I still say, you mean Mozart never did that on his piano/harpsichord?

 

I think he, and others, always did, so there is no concern for me in that spot.

 

Music is almost always an influence, and it maybe subtle and it might not be. But pretty soon someone is gonna say that their greatest influence is the Missa Bubba Looba Gatooma from Pluto and we're gonna go ... what?

 

 

Some believe that Classical reflections are a fine addition to composition in Prog Rock, but have no problem believing it's not essential ..and making it seem like an unsupportable quality. I think the dismissal of it would prove otherwise and not just because the existence of it is past tense, we all grew up with it, and digested the essence of it. ..but for the simple obvious logic that Classical music added a very unique personality to Progressive Rock..all on it's own and out of respect for the signature lines that were stolen/adapted/ lifted , I must render that the study of Classical is very exacting. Talented prog musicians who had little knowledge of Classical music and were able to play those lines were amazing to hear and see. I really respect that aspect and it carries a lot of glory within it's purpose. In 1974..dancing to 20 minute , multi-movement epics played in 9/8 time was NOT out of the question. I think that what the obvious tells us is ridiculous because that is merely an observation of surface knowledge and it ruhns quite deeper than that if you are a musician. A variety of rhythms which are unexpected are very easily adaptable when following the groove. "Birds of Fire" and "Eruption" contain a percussive groove. People were dancing to those stolen signature lines from Classical music in the 70's. In that sense...I believe Classical is essential to Prog. Society related to it.

 

And so few words. With nothing to say, except an idea in your head that you think others should paste to their butts!

 

You completely mis-understood what I wrote, and in fact, I seriously doubt that you even tried it. And next time, do me a favor. Go tell Dostoyevsky that he's an idiot and he should have written his opus in 10 pages for you!

 

You have no respect for anyone's thoughts on a subject. You still don't know what I believe. You only know what I went through and felt!

 

There is a difference!

And a drummer that was classically trained would have even less options to use his classical training to classically influence the music of his/her band, at least from the confines of his/her instrument. Classical music and drums (as in drum-set, not as in single drums) don't get along that well... (here will come the odd example of a piece using a drum-set)