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Poll Question: Should Buckethead be added to the site?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
101 [60.84%]
40 [24.10%]
25 [15.06%]
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:44
Burning Man is progressive living! Yeah, it's a trip. A fun one Big smile

Look i'm a new member here but i've been on this site for years.

It kinda freaks me out that i am now considered irritating!

Let me profusely apologize for any arrogance that may have come accross.

Typing in these forums quickly can lead to misinterpretations.

I'm just trying to make an argument. As i've already stated i respect whatever decision is made.

Life will go on whether any particular artist is here or not.

I would think that Buckethead himself wouldn't want his music to be divisive

Like i said i'm just gonna drop this and let it fall where it may. I've made my case.

As long as no one else accuses me of something i have to defend, i'm so over this!
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:50
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

The main reason he wouldn't get in to prog related is he has no connection to or influence on other prog artists, an essential qualifier for the genre.


I have no reason to not believe in what you said, Andy. Also, I know the criteria for an addition to PR section.
Though, my opinion is based on the votes at this poll.
The poll is clearly demonstrated that Buckethead is no stranger to PA members.
By the way, I personally am not a fan of Buckethead.
So, my opinion is based solely on what this poll showed to me - Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well.




Edited by Svetonio - December 22 2013 at 22:53
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Points: 344 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:54
I think he's pretty obviously prog related but the whole problem with the inspiration deal is that he's very much a contemporary artist. I know a lot of guys my age or so that really got into Buckethead's stuff but because they haven't yet made a name for themselves.

At the very least he has released a lot of Jazz Fusion albums which are really cool and deserve some proper recognition and the whole Bucketheadland series seems a bit prog metally.
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Points: 2866 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 23:56
This thread should come with buttered popcorn and a soda.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 00:42
Originally posted by Sheavy Sheavy wrote:

This thread should come with buttered popcorn and a soda.
I prefer the roasted pumpkin seeds; the most beautiful sport for teeths!
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 02:26
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

 Well, ok. If my attitude irritates you and my comprehension is failing me then I ask your help in understanding just what it is about my attitude that irritates you?

::snip::


So please let me know how my attitude irritates you with this. I am very eager to hear

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 I said your attitude irritates ... I did not mention your opinion, or express an opinion on your opinion,

attitude (n.) ~ An arrogant or hostile state of mind or disposition.

opinion (n.) ~ A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It kinda freaks me out that i am now considered irritating!

Let me profusely apologize for any arrogance that may have come accross.

Accepted.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 04:35
I have no opinion on whether the gifted guitarist Brian Patrick Carroll who goes by the stage name and persona of Buckethead should be added to the Archives or not. If he is evaluated for a Prog Sub other than Prog Related by the appropriate team then he will be evaluated by our established artist addition policies, if the team in question has previously rejected him then any re-evaluation must invoke the Controversial Bands Policy. As far as I am aware that applies to The Prog Metal Team and the Crossover Team.  Since he is seemingly releasing new albums continuously he will always be eligible for re-evaluation. The Controversial Bands policy is designed to ensure that everyone on the team not only agrees with the addition, but is comfortable with the addition - if there is any doubt in the mind of a team member then they must voice that doubt and vote accordingly - this should never be a "go with the flow" or "if you guys are for it then I'll vote 'yes'" decision. This is not the time to be obsequious.

If he is suggested for Prog Related then that suggestion has to come from a Special Collaborator and made directly to a member of the Admin Team by PM (not in an open forum thread). The SC will be responsible for championing the suggestion and adding the artist if the Admins clear the addition.

Before I go (literally, after the end of the year I'll no longer be responsible for any of this), I'd like to state the philosophy of the Prog Related category from the perspective of the Progressive Archive for the benefit of those who take it far too seriously:

Prog Related has the potential of being the largest single category in the Progressive Archives, if we were to add every band and artist that produced music that could be interpreted as being related to Progressive Rock (and all its subgenres) then it would contain more artists than all the "true" Progressive Rock subgenres put together. It would dominate the site and we would become the Prog Related Archives or more accurately, The Quite Good Music Archives. To be blunt: Rate Your Music does that far better than we do, but that's okay, we do not want to be a General Music Review site - we simply cannot compete with a megalith like RYM, we survive because we are niche and we can only remain niche by being selective in the Prog Related artists we add. So, how do we assess that selectivity? By following the Prog Related definition found on the genre page as closely as is practical. Of course every person who suggests an artist believes their case to be special, that their artist meets all those criteria and then some, but it is the Admin Team who decides whether the artist is to be added, and they use their knowledge, judgement and experience weighed against the PR criteria and the overall benefit to the PA in reaching a decision. Many artists are worthy of addition but not all will be accepted.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 04:56
^Very eloquently put DeanApprove

I can think of a few people who would do themselves good in bookmarking this particular page.
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Padraic View Drop Down
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:31
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well.


LOL

This is probably one of the silliest things I've read on this website.  And you can check my join date to see how long I've been around.
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:37
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

So, my opinion is based solely on what this poll showed to me - Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well. 

That's an Association Fallacy Svetonio:

1.- Prog fans have Prog albums
2.- Many Prog fans have Buckethead albums
3.- Then Buckethead albums are Prog

In that case, I'm sure many members of this site have

1.- Rumors by Fleetwood Mac.
2.- Toullouse Street by Doobie Brothers
3.- Boston by Boston

But this doesn't mean this bands should be added.

Iván




Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 23 2013 at 09:41
            
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:45
Actually he's already here in a round about way - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=10309
Jonas Hellborg Octave Of The Holy Innocents (with Buckethead And Michael Shrieve) album cover
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 11:57
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well.


LOL

This is probably one of the silliest things I've read on this website.  And you can check my join date to see how long I've been around.
It is my sincerest wish that Sventonio is never put in a position of responsibility here, he clearly lacks any understanding of this site or any discernment of what is required here. 

I recommend that he spends his time more productively at RYFM, where (apparently) there are no arbitrary limitations on inclusion, than waste our time here with his blunderbust suggestions.
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Points: 13634 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 13:38
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

So, my opinion is based solely on what this poll showed to me - Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well. 

That's an Association Fallacy Svetonio:

1.- Prog fans have Prog albums
2.- Many Prog fans have Buckethead albums
3.- Then Buckethead albums are Prog

In that case, I'm sure many members of this site have

1.- Rumors by Fleetwood Mac.
2.- Toullouse Street by Doobie Brothers
3.- Boston by Boston

But this doesn't mean this bands should be added.

Iván



Right, that's it! I'm suggesting The Mac for inclusion right awayLOL
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 13:44
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">So, my opinion is based solely on what this poll showed to me - Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well. </span>


That's an Association Fallacy Svetonio:
1.- Prog fans have Prog albums
2.- Many Prog fans have Buckethead albums
3.- Then Buckethead albums are Prog
In that case, I'm sure many members of this site have
1.- Rumors by Fleetwood Mac.
2.- Toullouse Street by Doobie Brothers
3.- Boston by Boston
But this doesn't mean this bands should be added.
Iván



Add to your list also The Who, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, Queen, David Bowie, Wishbone Ash, Rainbow, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Primus, Tantalus, Magna Carta, Toy Matinee ...

Also add to your list those whole sections of progressive electronic and post/math rock.


Oups, I just forget that they are already here





Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 16:00
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:49
I know English isn't your first language.  It's the only way I can fathom such a complete failure of reading comprehension.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:22





Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I know English isn't your first language.  It's the only way I can fathom such a complete failure of reading comprehension.

Although my English is very poor Embarrassed I'll  try to explain to you the facts.
When I went here, the bands were added in Prog Related section if they were recorded "at least one album which is 100% Prog".
Later on, it has changed into "No musical genre exists in a vacuum. Not all the bands that have been a part of history and development of progressive rock are necessarily progressive rock bands themselfs. This is why progarchives has included a genre called Prog Related, so we could include all the bands that complete the history of progressive rock, whether or not they were considered full-fledged progressive rock bands themselfs. (...)"
Buckethead fullfills both of those two requirements.
Also, as this poll showed as well, a number of PA members like to see Buckethead added.
There are a number of relevant websites who tagged Buckethead progressive.
Imho, it's just enough for Prog Related.
 
Btw, I know that some people really believe in the story that Buckethead  has no connection / influence on other prog artist, but I personally don't buy that story. Sorry, I think it's trivia that was invented to serve a small group of privileged moderators for rejection or to add an artist that they think that should be in Prog Related section.






Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 22:11
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:33
Hey Dean, thanks for the clear, concise and profound summary of how everything works here and for understanding that i wasn't TRYING to be arrogant or anything of the sort. I vote you put that explanation where everyone can read it BEFORE they suggest bands. I, myself, have suggested a couple that i would reconsider now after chatting in this forum section for a while. Buckethead i will continue to defend as not prog-related but actual prog. I'm over with that on this forum and if the times comes up again i will lend a hand (or an ear) to the process.

However, why aren't the MAMAS AND THE PAPAS here? Just kidding! I swear Beer
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 19:29
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 

Add to your list also The Who, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, Queen, David Bowie, Wishbone Ash, Rainbow, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Primus, Tantalus, Magna Carta Toy Matinee ...

Also add to your list those whole sections of progressive electronic and post/math rock.


Oups, I just forget that they are already here




It's a waste of time to explain what you don't want to listen but here it goes:

1.- The Who: Are the fathers of Rock Opera (There was a Rock opera before them, but the term was coined for Tommy), they were one of the first bands top break with the 2:30 minutes per song limit and whoever says that QUADROPHENIA is not a Conceptual Prog Album, doesn't know a word about Prog.

2.- Led Zeppelin: If it was only for John Paul Jones arrangements, they would deserve to be here, but they created a new sound that evolved from Blues Based Rock to everywhere. They were the main influence for bands like Rush and that alone makes them deserve a place here.

3.- Uriah Heep: Wow pal, if you don't consider July Morning, Tears in My Eyes, Look at Yourself, The Magicians Birthday (whole album) plus Demons & Wizards (Whole album) Prog.....You must be the only guy in the Prog listening universe. The blend of Hammond, wah wah guitars and Thain's bass created a thick atmosphere that can be compared with Genesis.

4.- Queen...A Day at the Races and A Night at the Opera don't ring a bell for you?

5.- Bowie: If it wasn't for him and Arthur Brown, all the theatric Prog would had hardly existed.

6.- IMO Iron Maiden should be in Prog Metal, that's how influential they are.

7.- Mettalica; I was against their inclusion, but I'm a big boy, when they were accepted, I shut up.

I don't mess with Electronic, but if Phillippe says they are Prog, they must be, because he's more selective than Dean and myself together...For God's sake, he rejected Vangelis LOL

I don't understand most of Math/Post rock so i don't question the experts

And even if all of them were wrongly added (Not the case), one mistake doesn't justify another mistake.
 
I will ask you something: If you hit a door and get a purple eye Ouch...Do you hit the door with the other eye to make it even?

I hope you don't.

Well, if a band is added by mistake, we don't add another one that shouldn't be here to make it even.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 23 2013 at 19:33
            
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2013 at 21:29
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

1.- The Who: Are the fathers of Rock Opera (There was a Rock opera before them, but the term was coined for Tommy), they were one of the first bands top break with the 2:30 minutes per song limit and whoever says that QUADROPHENIA is not a Conceptual Prog Album, doesn't know a word about Prog.

2.- Led Zeppelin: If it was only for John Paul Jones arrangements, they would deserve to be here, but they created a new sound that evolved from Blues Based Rock to everywhere. They were the main influence for bands like Rush and that alone makes them deserve a place here.

3.- Uriah Heep: Wow pal, if you don't consider July Morning, Tears in My Eyes, Look at Yourself, The Magicians Birthday (whole album) plus Demons & Wizards (Whole album) Prog.....You must be the only guy in the Prog listening universe. The blend of Hammond, wah wah guitars and Thain's bass created a thick atmosphere that can be compared with Genesis.

4.- Queen...A Day at the Races and A Night at the Opera don't ring a bell for you?

5.- Bowie: If it wasn't for him and Arthur Brown, all the theatric Prog would had hardly existed.

6.- IMO Iron Maiden should be in Prog Metal, that's how influential they are.

7.- Mettalica; I was against their inclusion, but I'm a big boy, when they were accepted, I shut up.

(...)
It's all bullsh*t.
Regarding Prog Related addition/ rejection games, the whole story about "influence of non prog band on prog band" is false and serves only for moderators to manipulate.
Just my two cents.







Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 21:46
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