top 100 prog bands

ivan_2068 wrote: Wrath_of_Ninian wrote about Genesis: They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too. I can understand you don't like Genesis, it's a matter of personal taste, I don't like King Crimson very much or Mahavishnu Orchestra for example, but from there to call one of the most influencial bands in Progressive Rock history rubbish, is offensive. Genesis duiring the Gabriel and/or Hackett era created one of the most unique an imaginative atmospheric sounds, Steve Hackett is probably the most talented guitar player in Prog' and Peter Gabriel is one of the top vocalists, not to mention Tony Banks, who's style is the base for a whole sub genre of Progressive Rock like Neo Prog. When I give hard opinions about any band (including STYX or Boston ) I try to give a reason why, saying they are rubbish without explaining why, has no senses. This is a discussion forum and in order to have an intelligent discussion we should give reasons. It's ok if you say you dislike them and you give valid reasons, but I believe they and their fans deserve some respect. Iván

I did not mean to 'offend', and if you truly are upset, I apologise.  Being a prog fan, I thought you might be used to such comments, especially in the public arena, but clearly my devastating repartee ("they're rubbish") cut through the tendons and stuck spikes in your nerves. 

If you are genuinely seeking a debate about why I feel this way about Genesis, I'm afraid this response will be a disappointment, as I have no real intention of decrying a band I rarely listen to these days (although Turn It On Again was on in IKEA the other day).

To respond to your points individually however, firstly I would agree that they are one of the most influential bands in prog, though why this means we should all love them is beyond me.  In many ways they showed how prog bands can evolve into pop bands, and this is an influence I could have done without.  I notice you define clearly the 'good' era from the 'bad' era - but it all comes under the 'Genesis' banner as far as I concerned (you'll notice I didn't make this distinction).  Secondly, to simply praise the guitarist, singer and keyboard player is not really saying why they they command respect.  I could name many guitarists who I think are more effective than Steve Hackett, but didn't think it would convey what I was trying to get across in my simplistic statement. 

Finally, I think Genesis are 'rubbish' because I have not made it to the end of one of their albums (both eras) without at least one of the following occuring:

1. Falling asleep

2. Opening a Reader's Digest magazine

3. Turning On TV's 'Countdown' (Again...)

4. Getting really annoyed that all these people can produce (with all their talent and money) is mediocre, overlong slabs of complex but ultimately bland rock fodder, which cannot stimulate the slightest inkling of emotion in my being.  The reason this is the case is because I am ME - and NOT because all Genesis fans are wrong.

If you want to take this further, perhaps on another thread, I could try and borrow back the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, and we can debate its merits in a civilised manner, without recourse to the word 'rubbish'.  In the meantime, I suggest you take my original post in the context in which it was written - it was a warm and no-harm-intended reaction to an earlier post denouncing the Top 100 chart, and in particular Genesis' positioning at No.3 (or whatever it was).  Similar, if less explicit comments were directed at other bands, without (may I add) the type of reaction I got from yourself. 

I hope this exchange has not tarnished your impression of me Ivan, as I try to be as honest and objective as I can.  I understand the point you are trying to make, and had I given such a response on a Genesis thread, then you would have a case.  In this instance however, you'll notice that virtually everyone else ignored the comment and got on with it. 

Best wishes

Threefates wrote:

and I really dislike IQ, which usually sound like a watered down version of Genesis.

Agree with you, and to be honest most Neo Prog' groups sound like a light version of Genesis to me, maybe except Pavlov's Dog which is unique because of David Surkamp's voice and Pendragon that has something special.

Iván

Yesterday I had a discussion about ELO with a guy there and after a hostile greeting he seemed receptive.

Also recieved a message from Drew (The Adm) and seems to be trying to do something good, but I believe too many hands are there and that's why Styx (For example) ended in place 21 even when in the past 5 lists wasn't even mentioned.

It's interesting to see the opinions of some people there even when there is no place like Prog Archives.

Maybe they have a lot of mistakes but at least they are trying to do a progressive list instead of another mainstream music page, I believe it will get better with some time and experience.

But I'm still angry for the lack of Triumvirat, Le Orme, Par Lindh, etc in that list.

Iván

1. LEONARD NIMOY (Bilbo Baggins)

2. WILLIAM SHATTNER (Lucy in the sky with diamonds)

3. RUSH

Everyone else sucks.

sigod wrote: Pixel Pirate wrote: Even though I can't stand King Crimson I will still rate them as the best prog band ever. There are such things as objective criteria even in music and to be absolutely objective,KC has pushed the bounderies further back and been on the whole more creative and imaginative than any other prog band so I would definitely cite them as the best prog band ever. Personal opinions and subjective notions don't come into it. If so,then IQ (or possibly Genesis) would be at the top of my list but to suggest that either of them have been more creative,original and groundbreaking than KC is laughable. If asked for my personal favourites,seen from a completely subjective viewpoint,IQ would be at the top of my list. If asked what is the most significant prog band ever from a completely objective,musical historical viewpoint,it would be King Crimson,without a doubt. The fact that I would rather listen to a pig giving birth than any of their albums doesn't enter into it. Do you know, I think that is the most wonderful thing you've ever said.

Oh,shucks. You're making me blush now! 

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote about Genesis:

They are rubbish.  Nice to know another prog fan that dislikes them too.

I can understand you don't like Genesis, it's a matter of personal taste, I don't like King Crimson very much or Mahavishnu Orchestra for example, but from there to call one of the most influencial bands in Progressive Rock history rubbish, is offensive.

Genesis duiring the Gabriel and/or Hackett era created one of the most unique an imaginative atmospheric sounds, Steve Hackett is probably the most talented guitar player in Prog' and Peter Gabriel is one of the top vocalists, not to mention Tony Banks, who's style is the base for a whole sub genre of Progressive Rock like Neo Prog.

When I give hard opinions about any band (including STYX or Boston ) I try to give a reason why, saying they are rubbish without explaining why, has no senses. This is a discussion forum and in order to have an intelligent discussion we should give reasons.

It's ok if you say you dislike them and you give valid reasons, but I believe they and their fans deserve some respect.

Iván

sigod wrote: 1. ProjeKt Four 2. 21st Century Schizoid Band 3. California Guitar Trio 4. Europa String Choir 5. Gitbox 6. ProjeKt Three 7. League Of Crafty Guitarists 8. ProjeKt Two 9. Robert Fripp String Quintet 10. League of Gentlemen 11. Iona 12. ProjeKt One 13. Earthworks 14. Los Gauchos Alemanes 15. The Bears 16. ProjeKt X 17. UK 18. Giles, Giles & Fripp 19. The Hellboys 20. King Crimson

No BPM & M?????????????????????????????

1. ProjeKt Four

2. 21st Century Schizoid Band

3. California Guitar Trio

4. Europa String Choir

5. Gitbox

6. ProjeKt Three

7. League Of Crafty Guitarists

8. ProjeKt Two

9. Robert Fripp String Quintet

10. League of Gentlemen

11. Iona

12. ProjeKt One

13. Earthworks

14. Los Gauchos Alemanes

15. The Bears

16. ProjeKt X

17. UK

18. Giles, Giles & Fripp

19. The Hellboys

20. King Crimson

Err - Where is Greenslade ? and KC No 1.....

I find it hard to serialise a list - better grading.

Genesis/Yes/Floyd/Camel/ELP/IQ/Greenslade are all grade 1.

Pendragon/Pallas/Twelfth Night grade 2 etc.....