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Poll Question: Should Buckethead be added to the site?
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101 [60.84%]
40 [24.10%]
25 [15.06%]
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 04:48
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

(...) Believe me, Buckethead and KFC Head's music is far more progressive than some other bands being added lately. This is not the X & Y argument either. (...)

Yes, it is.

Edited by Svetonio - December 22 2013 at 04:53
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 04:55
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

(...) Believe me, Buckethead and KFC Head's music is far more progressive than some other bands being added lately. This is not the X & Y argument either. (...)

Yes, it is.


LOL 
Stop talking at the big kiddie's table Svetonio - you've obviously not learned anything from your time on here. 
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 05:07
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

(...) Believe me, Buckethead and KFC Head's music is far more progressive than some other bands being added lately. This is not the X & Y argument either. (...)

Yes, it is.

LOL 
Stop talking at the big kiddie's table Svetonio - you've obviously not learned anything from your time on here. 

Oh no, I learnt so many new things here; e.g. I mastered on what the moderators' mobbing really is.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 05:24
This is not mobbing Svetonio, but when you post something that ill-informed and downright wrong, you're setting yourself up for failure. You've been here since 2010 and suggested hundreds upon hundreds of bands, and you still have no clue of what the site is all about. This has become increasingly evident with time, but when you now start defending the x and y argument, it really does take the cake. This is just about the poorest argument in PAs history, and we've been over that a thousand times before.
So yes: if you don't understand what's being discussed at the kiddie table, or even worse: do understand it but think the x and y argument is valid, then please stay away. 
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 05:36
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

This is not mobbing Svetonio, but when you post something that ill-informed and downright wrong, you're setting yourself up for failure. You've been here since 2010 and suggested hundreds upon hundreds of bands, and you still have no clue of what the site is all about. This has become increasingly evident with time, but when you now start defending the x and y argument, it really does take the cake. This is just about the poorest argument in PAs history, and we've been over that a thousand times before.

So yes: if you don't understand what's being discussed at the kiddie table, or even worse: do understand it but think the x and y argument is valid, then please stay away. 

No, I'm not defending X & Y argument given by Chris S. On contrary, I think It's shame that the Honorary Collaborator used the X & Y argument.

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Padraic View Drop Down
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 07:22
Why do people get their panties in such a twist if an artist isn't added here?  Is it really so important to you?
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 08:20
The thing that irritates me the most with these controversial artists is that if they finally do get in, they're forgotten about a minute later. They don't receive a lot of reviews nor are they talked about on the forums. The folks who fight for their inclusion often claim that they'll draw in crowds from all over the web, yet that never happens. People said that when Metallica got in, and I've never seen anyone mention how they got lured into PA, because there suddenly was a chance to review Kill em All. 
So yeah let me second the Arctic fox: why is this so important? Being prog is not a badge of honour y'know.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 11:30
Buckethead is a weird case.  You'd think he'd be here already just because of the many metal heads we have here.  I still support his addition but I'm not going to lose any sleep over his lack of inclusion.  And nobody gives a rat's ass what I think anyway.   It should be noted that Tangerine Dream was a controversy before I came on board in 2006... 

Edited by Slartibartfast - December 22 2013 at 11:31
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 12:25
Holy Christmas. 70 studio albums Shocked 

Over 20 years!! (even more Shocked)

Clearly not all is prog from what I have witnessed myself.  If suggested for addition in PA I would expect that the majority of his albums are prog?
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 12:27
^^ precisely TD......and PA evolution Brian, anyway my statement did suggest a separate thread to discuss the old arguments versus new and qualification criteria as a whole. I am not a big endorser of KFC Head and that was not really what I was referring toSmile I will happily kick off a healthy debate in the appropriate place to get 2014 off to a ripper and perhaps to avoid certain people flaming the issue.

Edited by Chris S - December 22 2013 at 12:28
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 12:59
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I read this entire thread. People tried and people were convincing. The fact that he wasn't included on this site shows the behind-the-scenes politics that are unfortunately exhibited in the rest of the world. it sorta shatters my image that this site is any different than any other place in the world, but whatever. It's just an archive site. Buckethead's music is still available to all and i can't even say i like it all. I only have a tiny fraction of what he has to offer but i guess it's the inconsistency of it all that boggles my mind. Who's more prog-related? Kate Bush or Buckethead? I actually like both but whatever! In a way this makes me wanna check out all the Buckethead albums i haven't heard yet (the majority) and rate them on Rate Your Music where there are no arbitrary limitations on inclusion. Sorry PA, i love you all dearly but you have left me a little perplexed with this one. Confused
Your attitude irritates almost as much as your mixed-case username. This site is simply not for you. You may leave any time you wish.
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Points: 15252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 13:01
Hey all. I was just hoping to get a definate answer about KFC head's status. I had no idea i was touching such a sore subject and picking the scabs of an obviously heated debate. I for one can live with or without him and i think Goldblumsen has a point about once he's added it's not like the gates are gonna come crashing down because of the masses waiting to write reviews! I kinda see him as beyond-progressive because he literally takes on every genre without cross-pollinating them. So i for one will put this to rest respecting all the effort that has gone into it. That's all i ask if for a worthy debate over the merits and that has clearly been taking place. I for one say Merry Christmas and a Happiest of New Years!!!!


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Points: 15252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 13:10
Hey Dean. I irritate you for having an opinion? I'm sorry, friend but that is not a reason to get upset. I wasn't expecting all this animosity! Seriously. Let me state it again: I'm letting this go! I am gonna write reviews for Mr. Head on RYM and MMA where he already is. And is it really becoming for an admin to ask someone to leave for expressing oneself? Come on, not very professional. I think since this is SUCH a sore topic you should just close this thread otherwise someone else will surely find it and light the fire again. Mr Head surely isn't going away
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Points: 35886 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 15:26
Sorry, I haven't read many of the comments.  As I recall, Buckethead was being considered for Eclectic Prog while I was still sort of on the team (I didn't want to have to evaluate much of his stuff, not knowing him).  His huge discography did make evaluation more difficult, and then there's the issue of him being a controversial artist.  He might well still be an undecided case for the Eclectic team.  Generally, one actually only needs one album that is considered full-fledged prog to be included in PA, but it doesn't always work that way, and in his case sending a few primo examples of alums to the eclectic team for evaluation might help -- should be enough material to indicate his progressive and eclectic prog nature.

Generally speaking (veeering off on tangents): Regarding the x vs y conversation, I think that it's a perfectly valid form of reasoning as long as one is comparing the music of a suggested band to a very similar band that is already in (and it 's best to be on the album level to be as specific as possible).  For instance, Henry Cow's Western Culture is in RIO/Avant, Horny Sow's Festering Vulture music sounds a lot like the Cow one, so perhaps Horny Sow should be included.  What I don't like is when people choose music by acts included that they don't think belong to make a case for another, and when people choose music by a band in PA that is dissimilar from their suggestion to try to make a case.  Saying that x band not here is more progressive than y band that is here does not make a good case.  The better comparisons are via similar sound and scene.  Drawing comparisons can help make a case for inclusion if done well (and we compare all the time to find fit even if only in our own minds).
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Points: 141 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 16:46
come on guys, we have the same problems with suggests and members on our little forum like you Smile

i see Buckethead as a more experimental musician than progressive, but he found new structures and creates new sounds on the guitar, so he is very different from a shred guitarists ..., he has some nice albums, melodic and terrific but he has also albums that i don't like because they are very experimental, chaotic and dissonant

it is a question for PA where you want to go in the future, you will add controversial artists like Buckethead and others or you will be more conservative ???, in a other way i don't see addition of Buckethead as the biggest evil on this site Smile 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 16:48
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Hey Dean. I irritate you for having an opinion? I'm sorry, friend but that is not a reason to get upset. I wasn't expecting all this animosity! Seriously. Let me state it again: I'm letting this go! I am gonna write reviews for Mr. Head on RYM and MMA where he already is. And is it really becoming for an admin to ask someone to leave for expressing oneself? Come on, not very professional. I think since this is SUCH a sore topic you should just close this thread otherwise someone else will surely find it and light the fire again. Mr Head surely isn't going away
Hey whatever the f___ your real name is. I said your attitude irritates, however your inability to read and comprehend runs it a close race. I did not mention your opinion, or express an opinion on your opinion, I could not give a flying fart about this subject one way or another and I could not give a flying fart about your opinion on that subject. The topic exists and people have mixed opinions, so sure this will not go away but that is no reason to add any artist, addition by attrition is not going to work around here - just look at all the Stratovarious, Grateful Dead and Judas Priest suggestion threads. I said your attitude irritates, and it still is. I also did not ask you to leave, I said you may leave any time you wish - again reading and comprehension are failing you. If you find this to be unprofessional then that's all to the good since dealing with arseh*les all day long is not a profession that everyone aspires to. (Note: I did not just call you an arseh*le)
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 20:03
Originally posted by Sheavy Sheavy wrote:

I've always felt him to be perfect for Prog Related.

(...)

I agreed.
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:06
The main reason he wouldn't get in to prog related is he has no connection to or influence on other prog artists, an essential qualifier for the genre.
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Points: 15252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:16
< ="text/">TD P { margin-bottom: 0in; }P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }A:link { }


Well, ok. If my attitude irritates you and my comprehension is failing me then I ask your help in understanding just what it is about my attitude that irritates you?


First of all Silly Puppy is my chosen name that I took years ago at Burning Man, so yes it's my real name. Not my legal birth certificate name but that really doesn't matter.


Let me go through the paragraph that you said irritated you and I will try to come to a conclusion why that is so going through it step by step so I can explain myself and come to a resolution with this.




|----I read this entire thread. People tried and people were convincing.


I stand by this. People are convincing.




|----The fact that he wasn't included on this site shows the behind-the-scenes politics that are unfortunately exhibited in the rest of the world.


Considering he is pretty much universally accepted as progressive that leads me no other conclusion than that there exists prejudice against him on this site. The fact that your own polls show the majority voting to approve him also backs this up

Here are just a few sites that deem him progressive metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckethead

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090112131507AA3nEs5

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/compact_discs/buckethead/

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/buckethead

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/buckethead-mn0000594765

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=132866523391431&id=125768757435393

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/buckethead?dref=856%2C865%2C971

http://www.seaoftranquility.org/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=6251




|----it sorta shatters my image that this site is any different than any other place in the world, but whatever.


Yep, it sure does. I didn't expect that here. Disappointment






|---- It's just an archive site. Buckethead's music is still available to all and i can't even say i like it all. I only have a tiny fraction of what he has to offer but i guess it's the inconsistency of it all that boggles my mind.


This means i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it meaning I keep this stuff in perspective and yes it boggles the mind that his work is inconstant and it makes you really have to go the extra mile to figure where this guy is coming from.





|---- Who's more prog-related? Kate Bush or Buckethead? I actually like both whatever!


Bad comparison I admit. As stated by others already Bumblefoot, Marty Friedman, Steve Vai (yes played with Zappa but not listed as prog-related under prog metal) are here. Very much similar



|--- In a way this makes me wanna check out all the Buckethead albums i haven't heard yet (the majority) and rate them on Rate Your Music where there are no arbitrary limitations on inclusion. Sorry PA, i love you all dearly but you have left me a little perplexed with this one. 



It does just that. This seems like an arbitrary exclusion indeed so I won't review his albums here. I will review them elsewhere. And yes I am perplexed with this one very much so.


So please let me know how my attitude irritates you with this. I am very eager to hear
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Andy Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:27
Burning man, eh? I've heard that event is quite the... uh... event. Pretty extreme.

In terms of your argument, what I understand irritated Dean (whose opinion I value over about just anyone on the site) was not what you said but rather the way you said it. Chopped up into bits, you start to lose the degree of superiority and arrogance that you presented your arguments with. To me, it sounded as if you believed your opinion trumped that of the many collaborators, who have been hand selected for their apt and knowledge of the genres they represent, who deemed he was unfit for the site. PA has some pretty stringent guidelines for what we consider prog and for good reason, because we want to maintain our integrity as one of the best prog rock resources around. A majority of collaborators, it seems, deemed that Buckethead did not fit that profile. Can he be re-evaluated? Under some extreme circumstances, yes. Someday will he be added? Maybe, whose to say. But all I can say is that I'm not losing any sleep over a single artist not being added here. Buckethead is progressive and he is rock, but many say that those two styles, for his music, still can't be considered progressive rock. End of story.

Dean will no doubt provide a far more insightful response - he always does.
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