The President Was Shot...

Lee Harvey Oswald, the ultimate loser.

Now, I would like if a conspiracy was true. But I don't really believe it.

In the end, any new information would mean very little. Conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied with the offical account of events. 

Atavachron wrote: It is both interesting and unusual that Oswald took no credit or pride in the crime.   Most political assassins want everyone to know they did it, and why.

Edited by dr wu23 - November 23 2013 at 14:37

dr wu23 wrote: Atavachron wrote: It is both interesting and unusual that Oswald took no credit or pride in the crime.   Most political assassins want everyone to know they did it, and why.   Yes, that is interesting and when he was questioned briefly by a press member when they were moving him a short while before Ruby shot him he answered, "No sir I didn't kill anyone." Some years after that some one did a voice stress analysis when the tech came into being and the results indicated he was telling the truth based on the way those things work.....but then I have no idea how accurate those things are or if Oswald's mental state could pass such a test. I also recall some expert shooters testing his ability to fire 3 shots accurately in the time needed and they set up the same basic conditions and it was damn near impossible to do it and Oswald was no expert and had a lousy rifle. It makes one wonder at least.

Yep, not to mention the target was moving.  It is hard to believe he could have done *that* well. 

But what I keep coming back to is....if some powerful dark entity or foreign power were behind this, and wanted to kill him without the trail leading back to them, would they choose to involve an unstable,  unreliable misfit with an operation of such magnitude and delicate details?  I mean look at Hoffa.  The Mob were not always perfect, but they made Hoffa disappear into thin air from a restaurant!   Wouldn't more powerful entities want an operation to be even cleaner....with hitmen who just vanished....as opposed to taking a chance on involving a dope. 

The.Crimson.King wrote:  However, the timing of shots established by the Zapruder film make it physically impossible for Oswald to have fired 3 bullets in 6 seconds with that specific rifle (which was known to gun dealers as one of the least accurate rifles ever made in addition to the fact that Oswalds rifle had a defective scope).  FBI experts couldn't duplicate this shooting performance with that rifle and Oswald's marine record grades him as a mediocre marksman at best.  Add to that the laughable "magic bullet theory" which attempts to explain the near perfect condition of the specific bullet that supposedly caused multiple wounds including shattering Gov Connelly's wrist and there's no way the physical facts support that only 3 shots were fired and that Oswald did the shooting alone.

Rebuttal (from a blog):

10.) The majority of Dealey Plaza witnesses said shots came from behind the President, in the direction of the School Book Depository Building.

In addition, an even larger percentage of witnesses said they heard EXACTLY three shots fired. No more, no less. And three spent shells (co-incidentally?) were found in the Sniper's Nest.

I also find it extremely interesting (and quite telling) that virtually EVERY SINGLE ONE (if not 100%) of the newsmen and reporters riding in the motorcade in Dealey Plaza, who were in a position to immediately report the shooting to the world via media outlets (radio, television, and newswire services), heard EXACTLY THREE SHOTS FIRED. Precisely the number that the "plotters" NEED to have Oswald firing in the Depository.

This would include Merriman Smith, Jack Bell, Pierce Allman, Jay Watson, and Jerry Haynes (among still others who reported "3 Shots" to a TV and radio audience before 1:00 PM on November 22nd).

Do conspiracy theorists think that all of these various reporters and newsmen were just being nice to the evil plotters by cooperating with their "Three-Shots-Needed" plot/plan? An odd "coincidence" if there had really been 4 to 10 shots fired in Dealey Plaza that Friday. Don't conspiracists think ANY of the reporters just might have heard a DIFFERENT number (other than "3") if the plot involved so many more shots?

The.Crimson.King wrote: If it weren't for the unexpected occurrence of Abraham Zapruder filming the parade, believing Oswald acted alone would seem plausible (though directly refuted by the testimony of 51 people on the scene who reported shots coming from the grassy knoll).  However, the timing of shots established by the Zapruder film make it physically impossible for Oswald to have fired 3 bullets in 6 seconds with that specific rifle (which was known to gun dealers as one of the least accurate rifles ever made in addition to the fact that Oswalds rifle had a defective scope).  FBI experts couldn't duplicate this shooting performance with that rifle and Oswald's marine record grades him as a mediocre marksman at best.    -  It is not physically impossible for Oswald, who'd been practicing with that particular rifle, "least accurate ever made" or not, to have fired at least three shots.   Oswald, dope that he was, was quite a serious person when it came to his personal skills.   You don't master Russian and work as a top radar operator if you don't know what you're doing.   The fact that the FBI couldn't precisely recreate the shooting doesn't prove it couldn't be done.   Oswald was a Marine Sharpshooter, not exactly shabby.   By civilian standards he was quite a good shot. Add to that the laughable "magic bullet theory" which attempts to explain the near perfect condition of the specific bullet that supposedly caused multiple wounds including shattering Gov Connelly's wrist and there's no way the physical facts support that only 3 shots were fired and that Oswald did the shooting alone.    - It's laughable but entirely possible.   Any war vet will tell you bullets go through multiple things including bodies and may or may not be severely deformed. Even the US federal government in 1979 re-examined the facts (The House Select Committee on Assassinations) which included acoustical evidence recorded by a policeman at the scene and concluded there were at least 4 shots and a "probable conspiracy".    - Yes.   But the officer turned out to be a block farther from Dealy Plaza than first thought, and though the audio spikes classified as gunshots were shown, the evidence became discredited.

Padraic wrote: The.Crimson.King wrote:  However, the timing of shots established by the Zapruder film make it physically impossible for Oswald to have fired 3 bullets in 6 seconds with that specific rifle (which was known to gun dealers as one of the least accurate rifles ever made in addition to the fact that Oswalds rifle had a defective scope).  FBI experts couldn't duplicate this shooting performance with that rifle and Oswald's marine record grades him as a mediocre marksman at best.  Add to that the laughable "magic bullet theory" which attempts to explain the near perfect condition of the specific bullet that supposedly caused multiple wounds including shattering Gov Connelly's wrist and there's no way the physical facts support that only 3 shots were fired and that Oswald did the shooting alone.   Rebuttal (from a blog): 10.) The majority of Dealey Plaza witnesses said shots came from behind the President, in the direction of the School Book Depository Building. In addition, an even larger percentage of witnesses said they heard EXACTLY three shots fired. No more, no less. And three spent shells (co-incidentally?) were found in the Sniper's Nest. I also find it extremely interesting (and quite telling) that virtually EVERY SINGLE ONE (if not 100%) of the newsmen and reporters riding in the motorcade in Dealey Plaza, who were in a position to immediately report the shooting to the world via media outlets (radio, television, and newswire services), heard EXACTLY THREE SHOTS FIRED. Precisely the number that the "plotters" NEED to have Oswald firing in the Depository. This would include Merriman Smith, Jack Bell, Pierce Allman, Jay Watson, and Jerry Haynes (among still others who reported "3 Shots" to a TV and radio audience before 1:00 PM on November 22nd). Do conspiracy theorists think that all of these various reporters and newsmen were just being nice to the evil plotters by cooperating with their "Three-Shots-Needed" plot/plan? An odd "coincidence" if there had really been 4 to 10 shots fired in Dealey Plaza that Friday. Don't conspiracists think ANY of the reporters just might have heard a DIFFERENT number (other than "3") if the plot involved so many more shots?

The.Crimson.King wrote: Padraic wrote: The.Crimson.King wrote:  However, the timing of shots established by the Zapruder film make it physically impossible for Oswald to have fired 3 bullets in 6 seconds with that specific rifle (which was known to gun dealers as one of the least accurate rifles ever made in addition to the fact that Oswalds rifle had a defective scope).  FBI experts couldn't duplicate this shooting performance with that rifle and Oswald's marine record grades him as a mediocre marksman at best.  Add to that the laughable "magic bullet theory" which attempts to explain the near perfect condition of the specific bullet that supposedly caused multiple wounds including shattering Gov Connelly's wrist and there's no way the physical facts support that only 3 shots were fired and that Oswald did the shooting alone.   Rebuttal (from a blog): 10.) The majority of Dealey Plaza witnesses said shots came from behind the President, in the direction of the School Book Depository Building. In addition, an even larger percentage of witnesses said they heard EXACTLY three shots fired. No more, no less. And three spent shells (co-incidentally?) were found in the Sniper's Nest. I also find it extremely interesting (and quite telling) that virtually EVERY SINGLE ONE (if not 100%) of the newsmen and reporters riding in the motorcade in Dealey Plaza, who were in a position to immediately report the shooting to the world via media outlets (radio, television, and newswire services), heard EXACTLY THREE SHOTS FIRED. Precisely the number that the "plotters" NEED to have Oswald firing in the Depository. This would include Merriman Smith, Jack Bell, Pierce Allman, Jay Watson, and Jerry Haynes (among still others who reported "3 Shots" to a TV and radio audience before 1:00 PM on November 22nd). Do conspiracy theorists think that all of these various reporters and newsmen were just being nice to the evil plotters by cooperating with their "Three-Shots-Needed" plot/plan? An odd "coincidence" if there had really been 4 to 10 shots fired in Dealey Plaza that Friday. Don't conspiracists think ANY of the reporters just might have heard a DIFFERENT number (other than "3") if the plot involved so many more shots? If there were only 3 shots, why did the Senate Subcommittee on Assassinations in 1979 state that at least 4 shots occurred after examining an audio recording made by a policeman at the event?  If anyone was invested in upholding the Warren report and the party line it would have been the 1979 Subcommittee.  Was the 1979 subcommittee lying, or was the Warren commission lying?

I was watching The McLaughlin Group (no not the musician) this weekend ~ not exactly a bastion of liberal yahoos ~ and John himself, Mr. Grumpy, does not believe the Single Bullet Theory.   Presumably in turn this means he does not believe LHO acted alone.   This is a subtle but new shift in popular conservative thinking.   Shows what fifty years of research into an open case can accomplish.

^ You are quite right, almost every point can be countered credibly.   And you shouldn't buy anything.   It is only independent thinking that will create breakthroughs and be able to understand any new evidence.  

You're also correct about the Z film;  It is, or has been, the most important evidence.   However there may be alterations to the film.   I can't count the number of witnesses who say the limo slowed abruptly and even stopped at the moment of the head shot, then sped off.   But the film only shows the car moving steadily down Elm before accelerating after the fatal shot.   And that's just one problem with it.   Another is the cut where we would've seen the limo make the slow hairpin turn at Houston & Elm.   Zapruder swore he never stopped filming from the moment the limo came into his view, but there is a clear and massive amount of missing film where the turn would've been.   Some witnesses say the driver, negotiating the tight turn, actually rolled the car up on to the curb.  

If these things did happen I suppose one could speculate they were removed as to not embarrass the Secret Service with their dismal job protecting the President that day.   But it's still alteration and destruction of the best evidence in a presidential assassination.