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The.Crimson.King 
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 Topic: Alternative Reality 70's Prog History
Posted: August 05 2013 at 18:32 |
I always wondered what would have happened in prog history if the following alternative reality story lines had occurred.
1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.
2) When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, Steve Hackett went with him and they formed a new band together.
3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.
Pick one and let your imagination run wild  |
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Epignosis
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 18:47 |
 The.Crimson.King wrote:
I always wondered what would have happened in prog history if the following alternative reality story lines had occurred.
1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.
2) When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, Steve Hackett went with him and they formed a new band together.
3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.
Pick one and let your imagination run wild |
1. I think Tales from Topographic Oceans would have been marginally better but Relayer would have been crippled.
2. Nothing would be much different, except we would not have had the pretty good A Trick of the Tail and the excellent Wind and Wuthering.
3. What does a "pulled together" Syd look and sound like?
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RedNightmareKing
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:11 |
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I've always wondered what would happen if 1969 KC stayed together...
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I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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dr prog
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:23 |
RedNightmareKing wrote:
I've always wondered what would happen if 1969 KC stayed together...
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Was about to say that. I don't care much for Islands and Starless and Bible black. While Red and Larks are good stuff but I find Larks has a few holes. I miss the Posiedon boys 
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:33 |
RedNightmareKing wrote:
I've always wondered what would happen if 1969 KC stayed together...
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I'm glad they didn't, we would never have had the wonderfully eclectic music from many different lineups over the years, although it would have been interesting to hear what they would have come up with. I find myself not really very excited about ITCotCK these days, but given the incredible musicians those guys were, I'm sure they would have evolved into something even better. Still, I'm happy we got all the other lineups instead. One thing I really would have liked to hear is Michael Giles on more records, to my knowledge he maybe appeared on one more album besides ITCotCK but he was such an incredible drummer with such a small output.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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RedNightmareKing
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:36 |
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
RedNightmareKing wrote:
I've always wondered what would happen if 1969 KC stayed together...
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I'm glad they didn't, we would never have had the wonderfully eclectic music from many different lineups over the years, although it would have been interesting to hear what they would have come up with. I find myself not really very excited about ITCotCK these days, but given the incredible musicians those guys were, I'm sure they would have evolved into something even better. Still, I'm happy we got all the other lineups instead.
One thing I really would have liked to hear is Michael Giles on more records, to my knowledge he maybe appeared on one more album besides ITCotCK but he was such an incredible drummer with such a small output.
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I'm really surprised Giles isn't mentioned much around here with his skills, especially on Lizard and ITCotCK. Anyways... I also wonder what would happen if Steven Wilson kept PT as a one-man project. I bet we'd still be hearing psychedelic experiments, and he'd be a lot further under the radar leaving his stellar solo output and 2002-2007 run of PT albums out of the mix...
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I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:37 |
Epignosis wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer. |
1. I think Tales from Topographic Oceans would have been marginally better but Relayer would have been crippled.
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Hmm...I don't know that Relayer would have been bad, and Bruford would definitely have gotten more into it than he did into the earlier material. It would have been different, though. Much different. And no, not as good, methinks, as it would have lost some of the aggressiveness that White brought to it. Bruford was jazzier but White fit the album better and gave it balance.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Pekka
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:38 |
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:40 |
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^Yes, McCulloch was the drummer on that album; Giles played on Poseidon, though. Can't comment on his playing on that as I wasn't impressed with the album and haven't listened to it in a long time.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Horizons
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:50 |
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Giles is great. The title track from Poseidon is a joy to listen to.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 22:55 |
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I'm glad the 1969/1970 KC line-up broke up. That's why groups break up. Either they hate each other or just get a bad vibe from each other or they are just different musically. Deviating from that natural course that KC took would mean things getting worse. Someone would get on drugs or alcohol or something and tolerate the enduring environment, or they would make a (semi-)s%^tty, uninspired album.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 05 2013 at 22:56
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:04 |
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Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band? Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place? Who would have been the singer?
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:26 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I'm glad the 1969/1970 KC line-up broke up. That's why groups break up. Either they hate each other or just get a bad vibe from each other or they are just different musically. Deviating from that natural course that KC took would mean things getting worse. Someone would get on drugs or alcohol or something and tolerate the enduring environment, or they would make a (semi-)s%^tty, uninspired album.
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According to Fripp's journal, the '69 band fell apart after the final show of the tour in SF. He actually offered to leave the band if the others wanted to keep King Crimson going. What in the world would that have done to prog history?
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RedNightmareKing
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:26 |
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band? Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place? Who would have been the singer?
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I have a feeling it would have never materialized, honestly. Emerson would probably go solo or continue with the Nice, and Palmer would stay with Atomic Rooster.
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I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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verslibre
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:33 |
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band? Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place? Who would have been the singer?
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Hendrix!
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: August 05 2013 at 23:38 |
I think Tales with Bruford would have been incredible (especially "The Ancient") but I'm with both of you on Relayer. Gates of Delirium and Sound Chaser especially required a "power drummer" like White not a "jazz drummer" like Mr B. Other than "Ritual" with the huge percussion ensemble, I always felt Alan White was a bit tentative with the other songs on Tales - perhaps because it was his 1st exposure to the Yes way of doing things - but he really staked out his place and heavily contributed to Relayer.
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richardh
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 01:13 |
RedNightmareKing wrote:
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Actually, another interesting thing about that lineup is - what would have become of ELP if Lake had stayed in KC and never joined the band? Would Emerson and Palmer ever have formed the band in the first place? Who would have been the singer?
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I have a feeling it would have never materialized, honestly. Emerson would probably go solo or continue with the Nice, and Palmer would stay with Atomic Rooster.
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Both Emerson and Lake wanted out of their respective bands of course so it suited them to form a new band. Palmer was actually very happy in Atomic Rooster and it took a some very strong words from Lake to get him to leave (''you are not only damaging me but yourself as well and that's heavy'' ).
The Nice had run its course although Moraz did a great job with Refugee (The Nice Part 2) King Crimson's best line up was on Red imo. Atomic Rooster with Palmer - now that's the interesting one. Could have been one of the major players in the prog scene perhaps? Crane was a very talented organist no doubt.
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 01:46 |
The.Crimson.King wrote:
I always wondered what would have happened in prog history if the following alternative reality story lines had occurred.
1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.
2) When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, Steve Hackett went with him and they formed a new band together.
3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.
Pick one and let your imagination run wild |
OK here I go :
1. Bruford was fed up with Yes and all the arguments that went on with the creative process. Wakeman was getting towards the end of his tether as well. By the time TFTO was finished Wakeman left in disgust. I really don't think Bruford would have made it through the whole mess. He took a pay cut and joined Crimson. I really don't think that Lark's, Starless & Bible Black or Red would have turned out like they did without Bill. remember Jamie Muir left just after Lark's was completed and joined some monks. 2. Gabriel left Genesis for personal reasons. I don't think he or Hackett were even thinking of hooking up to form another band. I don't even think Gabriel was thinking about going solo at the time. Hackett stuck around for a couple of more albums before Philly turned it into a pop band to make $$$$$$$$. Then Hackett said f**k you Philly I've had enough of this nonesense. I'm an artist. 3. Syd's mind was toast. Scrambled eggs. Gilmour had to be brought in. If Syd's mind had not left him there would have been no Dave Gilmour. Why? The only reason Gilmour was brought in was because Syd's mind was in the twighlight zone.
Edited by Vibrationbaby - August 06 2013 at 01:50
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presdoug
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 07:20 |
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I have always wondered what would have resulted if Helmut Koellen had not left Triumvirat at the end of '75, would the band have made a few more "Spartacus" quality records?
And of course, wonder even if he had split from the band when he did, what would have transpired for Koellen had he not died in 1977, maybe his solo album would have really taken off?
I think yes to both these scenarios, if i had to guess.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 07:32 |
And what if Tony Iommi actually remained as Tull's lead guitarist? The album "Jethro Bloody Jethro" would have been quite interesting. 
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Alternative Reality 70's Prog History
