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Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: May 13 2013 at 07:54
Svetonio wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Aha! You fell right into his trap.
Quickly Svetonio - shut your trap!
"...I can`t shoot them anymore..."
Oh boy. Do I feel stupid now. This is so embarrassing I'm going to have to lash-out irrationally and with extreme prejudice at the next unsuspecting idiot who crosses my path just to reestabish my self esteme. Or maybe I'll just go O RLY.
...also, I don't get the Bob Dylan reference, then maybe I ain't got the power anymore.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:12
Guldbamsen wrote:
We have had this discussion before, and I believe also a thread that demanded proof of "prog" in Bowie's material.
The fact of the matter is, that no matter which way one wishes to approach him from, be that the glam rock, art pop - hell even disco; you simply cannot deny his fingerprint on a truckload of future experimental artists. He made albums with everything from krautrock, ambient, avant-garde, rag time, funk you name em - plus a string of albums done in Berlin that truly defied every boundary conceived by fans and critics alike.
He was never prog, but he is perhaps one if the most 'progressive' artists ever to have thrived in the mainstream spotlight. I think he is as essential to the prog related sub here on PA, as King Crimson is to the rest of the site.
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Mr Bowie put together his collage of what he heard at the time and it worked great and it is here, but pop art collages prepared wtih magnificent pop hits does not mean Progressive Rock.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:16
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Aha! You fell right into his trap.
Quickly Svetonio - shut your trap!
"...I can`t shoot them anymore..."
Oh boy. Do I feel stupid now. This is so embarrassing I'm going to have to lash-out irrationally and with extreme prejudice at the next unsuspecting idiot who crosses my path just to reestabish my self esteme. Or maybe I'll just go O RLY.
...also, I don't get the Bob Dylan reference, then maybe I ain't got the power anymore.
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:17
Guldbamsen wrote:
We have had this discussion before, and I believe also a thread that demanded proof of "prog" in Bowie's material.
The fact of the matter is, that no matter which way one wishes to approach him from, be that the glam rock, art pop - hell even disco; you simply cannot deny his fingerprint on a truckload of future experimental artists. He made albums with everything from krautrock, ambient, avant-garde, rag time, funk you name em - plus a string of albums done in Berlin that truly defied every boundary conceived by fans and critics alike.
He was never prog, but he is perhaps one if the most 'progressive' artists ever to have thrived in the mainstream spotlight. I think he is as essential to the prog related sub here on PA, as King Crimson is to the rest of the site.
Yes, everything that you've said.
I guess prog related would be the best thing; I wish PA had an "art rock" sub-category, where other bands and artists might also squeeze into PA. For example, I'd love to see Pere Ubu in PA (for The Modern Dance, Dub Housing, and Terminal Tower particularly)...
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:27
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Mr Bowie put together his collage of what he heard at the time and it worked great and it is here, but pop art collages prepared wtih magnificent pop hits does not mean Progressive Rock.
Every act here in PA (or its prog-related genre) is a "music pioneer in rock music"? Is that a prerequisite?
(Although I certainly disagree with you about Bowie not being a musical pioneer.) Your idea about a musical collage is really cool. I wonder though - I'm racking my brains thinking of his 70s work, and I don't hear any collages in there... You are suggesting that Bowie was following every popular trend in music, but in truth he was ahead of trends, setting them. Bowie was a true musical pioneer - it's his defining characteristic.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:34
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Erm.
Please explain:
1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.
3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30)
Consider your answers carefully, use both sides of the paper if necessary.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: May 13 2013 at 09:20
Bowie is listed as Prog-Related.
I'm not sure if people here are trying to say 'it should be listed as proper Prog' or 'it should not be listed in PA at all'.
For me Prog-Related is where he fits, I think not having him in PA would be a big miss, but indeed he does not fit in any of the 'traditional' Prog sub-genres.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 09:23
jude111 wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Mr Bowie put together his collage of what he heard at the time and it worked great and it is here, but pop art collages prepared wtih magnificent pop hits does not mean Progressive Rock.
Every act here in PA (or its prog-related genre) is a "music pioneer in rock music"? Is that a prerequisite?
(Although I certainly disagree with you about Bowie not being a musical pioneer.) Your idea about a musical collage is really cool. I wonder though - I'm racking my brains thinking of his 70s work, and I don't hear any collages in there... You are suggesting that Bowie was following every popular trend in music, (...)
Exactly. His music is like a beautiful palimpsest painting.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 09:38
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Erm.
Please explain:
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: May 13 2013 at 09:56
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Erm.
Please explain:
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.
That would be because he didn't. Very apt that you chose Bowie's cover of the Who's I Can't Explain, which was in turn influenced by:
"It can't be beat for straightforward Kink copying." ~ Pete Townshend (1994).
You can guess that the answers to the other two questions I posed are also not what you think they are. I like The Who but there is an awful lot of nonsense and mythology about their supposed role in pioneering rock music, it's not even certain that they were the first to produce a Rock Opera.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: May 13 2013 at 10:04
jude111 wrote:
(Although I certainly disagree with you about Bowie not being a musical pioneer.) Your idea about a musical collage is really cool. I wonder though - I'm racking my brains thinking of his 70s work, and I don't hear any collages in there... You are suggesting that Bowie was following every popular trend in music, but in truth he was ahead of trends, setting them. Bowie was a true musical pioneer - it's his defining characteristic.
Fully agree, it doesn't matter if he used elements from this and that, everybody does that to a certain extent, but Bowie was a real trend-setter and a progressive artist. After Young Americans it could have been easy for him to settle into commercial soul-funk-disco stuff but he had the courage and integrity to move forward and experiment (Station to Station being still a transitional album but with the Berlin trilogy leaving no doubts about that).
Svetonio is right about the collage thing though, if it's to do with the lyrics. Bowie used to take a pair of scissors and cut up all the sentences to a tune, and then rearrange them in order to gain something new from the material.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
Posted: May 13 2013 at 10:18
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Erm.
Please explain:
1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.
3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30)
Consider your answers carefully, use both sides of the paper if necessary.
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
Posted: May 13 2013 at 10:40
Please explain:
1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music. Answer: Er.
Yes, you're exactly right! It was in the small village of Er, outside of Wheretoforshire, that a proverbial fruit from a proverbial tree fell on a young Townshend's proverbial head, giving him the idea to pioneer electronic music. This happened at precisely 10am or thereabouts. In ancient Persian, they say, "Er O'Clock."
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly. Answer: Er.
Again, correct answer, for the same reason above. Moving on...
3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30). Answer: Er. I give up.
Right again! The six hour track "Underture" (reduced considerably to fit within the confines of the vinyl record) was originally titled "Er. I Give Up."
The 3-minute pop song limitation was set by the old Jukebox companies, who (for obvious reasons) wanted popular songs to be short. They lost their tight grip on the music business in 1965, and Bob Dylan immediately wrote a six minute pop song called "Like A Rolling Stone". He recorded it in June 1965, while The Who were recording their debut album, more than three years before "Tommy"
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Posted: May 13 2013 at 12:53
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Erm.
Please explain:
1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.
3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30)
Consider your answers carefully, use both sides of the paper if necessary.
The first thing that came to mind when I read this was that Who song.
I, uh, can't explain why it came to mind.
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 13 2013 at 12:55
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
Posted: May 13 2013 at 14:20
jude111 wrote:
Please explain:
1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music. Answer: Er.
Yes, you're exactly right! It was in the small village of Er, outside of Wheretoforshire, that a proverbial fruit from a proverbial tree fell on a young Townshend's proverbial head, giving him the idea to pioneer electronic music. This happened at precisely 10am or thereabouts. In ancient Persian, they say, "Er O'Clock."
2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly. Answer: Er.
Again, correct answer, for the same reason above. Moving on...
3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30). Answer: Er. I give up.
Right again! The six hour track "Underture" (reduced considerably to fit within the confines of the vinyl record) was originally titled "Er. I Give Up."
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Svetonio wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
