Joined: October 20 2009
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Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:27
Svetonio wrote:
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Mr Bowie put together his collage of what he heard at the time and it worked great and it is here, but pop art collages prepared wtih magnificent pop hits does not mean Progressive Rock.
Every act here in PA (or its prog-related genre) is a "music pioneer in rock music"? Is that a prerequisite?
(Although I certainly disagree with you about Bowie not being a musical pioneer.) Your idea about a musical collage is really cool. I wonder though - I'm racking my brains thinking of his 70s work, and I don't hear any collages in there... You are suggesting that Bowie was following every popular trend in music, but in truth he was ahead of trends, setting them. Bowie was a true musical pioneer - it's his defining characteristic.
Joined: October 20 2009
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Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:17
Guldbamsen wrote:
We have had this discussion before, and I believe also a thread that demanded proof of "prog" in Bowie's material.
The fact of the matter is, that no matter which way one wishes to approach him from, be that the glam rock, art pop - hell even disco; you simply cannot deny his fingerprint on a truckload of future experimental artists. He made albums with everything from krautrock, ambient, avant-garde, rag time, funk you name em - plus a string of albums done in Berlin that truly defied every boundary conceived by fans and critics alike.
He was never prog, but he is perhaps one if the most 'progressive' artists ever to have thrived in the mainstream spotlight. I think he is as essential to the prog related sub here on PA, as King Crimson is to the rest of the site.
Yes, everything that you've said.
I guess prog related would be the best thing; I wish PA had an "art rock" sub-category, where other bands and artists might also squeeze into PA. For example, I'd love to see Pere Ubu in PA (for The Modern Dance, Dub Housing, and Terminal Tower particularly)...
Joined: September 20 2010
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Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:16
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Aha! You fell right into his trap.
Quickly Svetonio - shut your trap!
"...I can`t shoot them anymore..."
Oh boy. Do I feel stupid now. This is so embarrassing I'm going to have to lash-out irrationally and with extreme prejudice at the next unsuspecting idiot who crosses my path just to reestabish my self esteme. Or maybe I'll just go O RLY.
...also, I don't get the Bob Dylan reference, then maybe I ain't got the power anymore.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: May 13 2013 at 08:12
Guldbamsen wrote:
We have had this discussion before, and I believe also a thread that demanded proof of "prog" in Bowie's material.
The fact of the matter is, that no matter which way one wishes to approach him from, be that the glam rock, art pop - hell even disco; you simply cannot deny his fingerprint on a truckload of future experimental artists. He made albums with everything from krautrock, ambient, avant-garde, rag time, funk you name em - plus a string of albums done in Berlin that truly defied every boundary conceived by fans and critics alike.
He was never prog, but he is perhaps one if the most 'progressive' artists ever to have thrived in the mainstream spotlight. I think he is as essential to the prog related sub here on PA, as King Crimson is to the rest of the site.
Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;
Mr Bowie put together his collage of what he heard at the time and it worked great and it is here, but pop art collages prepared wtih magnificent pop hits does not mean Progressive Rock.
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
Posted: May 13 2013 at 07:54
Svetonio wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Aha! You fell right into his trap.
Quickly Svetonio - shut your trap!
"...I can`t shoot them anymore..."
Oh boy. Do I feel stupid now. This is so embarrassing I'm going to have to lash-out irrationally and with extreme prejudice at the next unsuspecting idiot who crosses my path just to reestabish my self esteme. Or maybe I'll just go O RLY.
...also, I don't get the Bob Dylan reference, then maybe I ain't got the power anymore.
We have had this discussion before, and I believe also a thread that demanded proof of "prog" in Bowie's material.
The fact of the matter is, that no matter which way one wishes to approach him from, be that the glam rock, art pop - hell even disco; you simply cannot deny his fingerprint on a truckload of future experimental artists. He made albums with everything from krautrock, ambient, avant-garde, rag time, funk you name em - plus a string of albums done in Berlin that truly defied every boundary conceived by fans and critics alike.
He was never prog, but he is perhaps one if the most 'progressive' artists ever to have thrived in the mainstream spotlight. I think he is as essential to the prog related sub here on PA, as King Crimson is to the rest of the site.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 07:05
Jim Garten wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: May 13 2013 at 06:38
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Posted: May 13 2013 at 05:32
Dean wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Actually, I posted this three hits because I knew that someone would comment on it in a way like you just did.
Of course, Genesis were recording a number of pop hits, not even so much artistic and elegant as Mr Bowie did but there is hell of reason why Genesis will forever be linked to Progressive Rock.
Mr Bowie will generally always be tied to his magnificient pop hits, not to Progressive Rock.
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Posted: May 13 2013 at 04:44
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
Joined: October 20 2009
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Posted: May 09 2013 at 23:20
How about "art rock" as a subgenre? That's a category that I could see being included here on Prog Archives, and would open up interesting possibilities... Roxy Music, Pere Ubu, Bowie, maybe Velvet Underground (hey, with Warhol at the helm, how could it *not* be art rock? :-)
It could be considered a 'not-quite-prog" category, like proto-prog and prog-related.
Joined: August 22 2010
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 10:56
The Dark Elf wrote:
David Bowie, like Ian Anderson, Frank Zappa or Peter Gabriel, was only 'prog' when he wanted to be. At other times they were each something else altogether. The term prog to is often too confining.
Exactly.......
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 03:53
I cannot comment on whether Bowie belongs here because I haven't listened to his albums, only a few songs. I don't think Kate Bush and Bjork are out and out prog but they (esp Bjork) have one or two albums that are prog. I am less sure of where Tori Amos fits in. Maybe her later work has stuff that fits in because I don't hear prog on Little Earthquakes or Under the Pink. She's probably less prog than Elton John. I have said it once before that the standards are too high for 70s artists. It was more routine for them to make long tracks and even with lots of changes so it gets discounted vis a vis a 90s artist attempting the same thing.
Joined: January 03 2012
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 03:38
rogerthat wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
Are there no Prog singer-songwriters?
Ian Anderson, Jon Anderson, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Bjork, a few I could think of.
Well, that quote is more than a reason to revisit what prog is about.
I don't think that Kate Bush is very PROG. She's art rock. Just like Bowie, but Bowie had more experimental stuff like 'Low'. And then, what is art rock? I personally always thought that it's subgenre and even sometimes alias for prog, art rock can be used to describe something more simple, more poppish, but _still_ with prominent sophistication/prog leanings.
I don't believe that Bjork fans really think that she is prog — but
on that site she, Nine Inch Nails, Lacrimosa and many bands no-one ever
described as progressive are counted in prog categories. Whilst many others, who always were a part of art rock movement, are listed in Prog-Related section, and that simply bugging me.
I know this is old theme for discussion, but this site really demands re-categorisation
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Is David Bowie prog?
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Svetonio wrote:
I don't see the relevance of posting three hit singles. That's not unlike posting video's of "Tonight Tonight Tonight", "No Son Of Mine" and "I Can't Dance" and stating that Genesis are artistic pop at its best, not Progressive Rock at all.
