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ProgMetaller2112 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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 Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:32 |
Listen guys, I'm defending or attacking Tubes but either he doesn't like GG at all or he'll come around soon 
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 07 2013 at 05:35
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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dennismoore
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:42 |
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As to the 13 votes that say Free Hand is a 1 star recording:
In the coming decades when genetic science will allow mankind to eradicate inferior traits from the genome...
We now have the subjects to eliminate the "stupidity" gene.
This may seem harsh, but this is more than a simple case of opinion, it is reviewer incompetence. Example, I am not very keen on metal or singers that scream & growl, so I would certainly trash them in a review as that stuff truly causes me discomfort. So the answer is: Don't review the stuff that you really don't like. It is pointless. If you guys still don't get my point, think of it this way:
Gentle Giant - Free Hand
YES - CTTE
ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Yes, you can find people that speak negatively about these recordings(in fact here at PA) yet that would be a complete waste of time since the above recordings are genre leading masterpieces of prog.
So I do think the reviewer was at best, ill-advised to lampoon Free Hand. His time telling us about music would have been better served writing about music that he was more qualified to speak of.
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:49 |
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The story so far:
Tubes
2 reviews only....both Gentle Giant classics...both 1 star each.
Looking forward to his reviews of GG's entire catalog (no doubt "Giant For A Day" will get 5 big ones!).
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:50 |
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^^^ Has he given in-depth analysis of what he doesn't like about them
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:56 |
 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
^^^ Has he given in-depth analysis of what he doesn't like about them
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"In depth" is an understatement. Please read here for Tubes' Octopus review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=940413
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 05:57 |
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^^ Is he insulting the band themselves
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 06:18 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
^^ Is he insulting the band themselves
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Not really, he just hates Free Hand and Octopus so much that he has to give them 1 star each. i.e. both albums apparently have no redeeming features whatsoever. Which I suppose is his prerogative.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 06:22 |
^^^ He's missing out then I'm not that big on Octopus but I am big on the Giant though
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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MustardSea
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 18 2013
Location: Vienna, Austria
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 06:25 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
Don't look now guys and gals.
But he's at it again.
Tubes has just given Octopus a 1 star rating and written a review almost as long as "War and Peace" to justify the rating.
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Just saw it.. He may have written a lot to justify his opinion but it just comes across as him hating Gentle Giant with a vengeance and therefore giving them 1* ratings. Very strange. I mean - he's criticising the band because they took inspiration from a book for a song, is complaining about "prog cliché piano" or the record "sounding very '70s" when this was released in 1972, then throws in some bit about some 14th century music to justify that "Knots" isn't groundbreaking and therefore bad but at the same time doesn't seem to mind that "Close To The Edge" by Yes is set up like a sonata AND takes inspiration from Siddharta.. It seems a bit silly to me..
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 07:01 |
Late Breaking NEWS here:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92886
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kit-kat
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 07:58 |
dennismoore wrote:
ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Yes, you can find people that speak negatively about these recordings(in fact here at PA) yet that would be a complete waste of time since the above recordings are genre leading masterpieces of prog.
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What's the point of reviews and ratings then? I get what you're saying, but if someone listens to an alleged "masterpiece" and doesn't think it lives up to its reputation, then he has every right to say so. I don't want this to turn into a subjectivity vs. objectivity debate (I've seen those on other forums and nothing good ever comes out of it), but I don't think you can state something like that as a fact (the bolded part I mean) and expect everyone to agree with it and just stay silent if they don't. I think Brain Salad Surgery is pretty bad and DSOTM is three stars at best, if I posted a review on either, would you tell me I have "stupidity gene" or whatever?
In fact I'm not sure why this guy is getting picked on for his review; I don't wanna defend him or anything and I see he's asking for his review to be deleted but I think this is getting blown way out of proportion, I mean I'm pretty sure he's not the first one to give any of the "masterpieces" a bad review and I have seen much worse, so I don't see the point of this thread (but yes, I posted in it anyway).
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 10:28 |
I'm afraid his methodology, albeit backed up my his massive review full of musicobabble, is either to give one star to albums he thinks overrated or 5 stars to those he likes and nothing in between IN ORDER TO GAIN ATTENTION. OK, he perhaps doesn't like GG - nor did I for 20 years until they just clicked and I saw why I had been so stupid in dismissing their music because I didn't understand what they were doing - but that doesn't merit giving a well composed and excellently played album 1*. My guess is his next GG review will be a 5* for something like Giant for a Day (to cause controversy!).
(I have given 3 1* reviews from memory; one (Pawn Hearts) I regret because I wrote at a bad time in my life and it is really worth 3*. The other 2 I stand by; Comus is a band which you love or hate (and I hate them) and Myths and Legends was the biggest disappointment I ever heard. partly die to the excruciating vocals.)
I had a suspicion that's what he was going to do, which is why I started this thread.
Edited by Hercules - April 07 2013 at 10:29
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 10:49 |
He certainly seems to hate GG......but like the old joke goes.....'Everyone is entitled to their opinion...even if it's wrong.'
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:33 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
Don't look now guys and gals.But he's at it again.Tubes has just given Octopus a 1 star rating and written a review almost as long as "War and Peace" to justify the rating.
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I've seen longer. Scott (ACRush) is usually good at writing long'uns.
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kit-kat
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:39 |
Hercules wrote:
I'm afraid his methodology, albeit backed up my his massive review full of musicobabble, is either to give one star to albums he thinks overrated or 5 stars to those he likes and nothing in between IN ORDER TO GAIN ATTENTION. OK, he perhaps doesn't like GG - nor did I for 20 years until they just clicked and I saw why I had been so stupid in dismissing their music because I didn't understand what they were doing - but that doesn't merit giving a well composed and excellently played album 1*. My guess is his next GG review will be a 5* for something like Giant for a Day (to cause controversy!).
(I have given 3 1* reviews from memory; one (Pawn Hearts) I regret because I wrote at a bad time in my life and it is really worth 3*. The other 2 I stand by; Comus is a band which you love or hate (and I hate them) and Myths and Legends was the biggest disappointment I ever heard. partly die to the excruciating vocals.)
I had a suspicion that's what he was going to do, which is why I started this thread. |
Dunno, he only just joined the site and doesn't really have many ratings, I'm not sure you can make that conclusion so soon. It didn't seem like trolling to me, he did write a sort of elaborate review and there wan't really anything offensive about it (even if I didn't agree with much of it - I like GG, at least what I've heard from them), that's why I don't understand why this is drawing so much attention, you could make a thread like this for any 1* review of any highly rated album.
AND HOW DARE YOU GIVE PAWN HEARTS ONLY 3 STARS IT'S ONE OF THE BEST ALBUMS EVER nah, just kidding, I forgive you
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:56 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
Late Breaking NEWS here:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92886
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As I have written in the thread linked below. I don't like what is happening from every point of view. The site has rules and whether a review is acceptable or not depends on the rules. There's also a more appropriate thread for this kind of things: "review discussions" or "review reporting".
I have started a thread almost identical to this about a controversial review, but I was the author.
I think we should better quit the discussion and leave it to the admins, if there's anything which can be of interest for them. Complaints and critics about this or other reviews can go via PM.
I should blame the review of Octopus (look at my nick), but I really don't care. When one album that I don't know has controversial ratings I try to read the most and at least I can look for samples. If it's an album that I know I may change my opinion if the review points out something I'm not aware of, but not my tastes.
The only suggestion that I want to give to Tubes is this: when you write a review think also to the artists. GG will surely don't care of your judgement, but a young band which has self-funded an album and is struggling in finding time and money to continue making music, well, be careful with your ratings in the bad and in the good as you can influence the things more than how much you can expect.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:56 |
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@dennismoore You realize that you're talking about eugenics, there, man? You know like man playing with himself, playing God. LOL Either way, that's a pretty offensive thing to say, ie. that I have a 'stupidity gene' (did you come up with that all by yourself? You are SO clever). I'm reporting you, period.
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 12:06 |
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@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 12:07 |
Tubes wrote:
@dennismoore You realize that you're talking about eugenics, there, man? You know like man playing with himself, playing God. LOL Either way, that's a pretty offensive thing to say, ie. that I have a 'stupidity gene' (did you come up with that all by yourself? You are SO clever). I'm reporting you, period. |
I don't know if you have a stupidity gene, but sticking on this polemic this is what you are showing. Sorry to say this, but Tubes doesn't seem to be the only one. More than a gene it looks like a virus.
I'd like to come back to what I think is the spirit of this site. Shulman brothers surely don't care of this review and about the one of OIctopus that I have read before it was deleted, I totally disagree but I care even less because I have listened to it with my ears.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: April 07 2013 at 12:08 |
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And, just to let you know, I'm the one who has made SEBTP fall from the first place of the top 100 with a 3-stars review.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Free Hand - a 1* album