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M27Barney 
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Joined: November 09 2006
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 Posted: January 22 2013 at 13:21 |
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Aye - I still have that somewhere in the loft I reckon. The version of grendel is also better than what was recorded if I remember.....The Web and Forgotten sons are also far superior than the versions laid down on script....
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5154
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Posted: January 22 2013 at 13:51 |
You had to get their EP's, it's a remarkably nasty thing that otherwise you could not get wonderful tracks such as Market Square Heroes, Three Boats, Grendel, Charting the Single, Cinderella Search or Margaret in proper format until the release of B-Sides. Personally I was lucky to discover those EP's quickly at their time but it's a shame for many other listeners that these great tracks remained obscure and not released in proper official albums.
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infocat
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Points: 4671
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Posted: January 22 2013 at 22:48 |
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Hmm, I have B-Sides Themselves and find the only really good song on it is "Tux On".
I like "Grendel" as well, but it has its issues...
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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: January 22 2013 at 23:10 |
 Roxbrough wrote:
IQ is what? Anglagard is what? Where do you get this information? if you are going to make bold statements you should back them up with source reference, or prefix it with "in my opinion". |
Sorry for the delay, just saw your post
IQ is a typical Neo Prog band, not here, not in my opinion, you can search any Prog site and you will find the reference
Anglagard is párt of the Symphonic revival of the 90's, born with the creation of the Swedish Art Rock Society, that rescued the Symphonic genre of the 70's, releasing original material, even using exclusively instruuments that were availlable in the 70's and tending to a more complex sound without AOR or mainstream influence if possible.
Source
IQ: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=165 http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=149} http://www.gepr.net/i.html#IQ http://www.progressiveears.com/default_old_sys.asp
Anglagard http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=18 http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=24 http://www.progressiveears.com/default_old_sys.asp http://www.gepr.net/am.html#ANGLAGARD
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 22 2013 at 23:14
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SMSM
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2005
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Points: 210
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 14:55 |
So he wants his music to be known as the new wave of progressive rock?
New Wave was another term for poppy punk bands and sometimes applied to new romantic bands like the Flock of Seagulls etc
Neo prog was used to describe prog bands in the 1980's who were more song oriented and did not go off on long instrumental passages that certain prog bands in the 1970s did, which sometimes hurt the music more than it added to it.
Personally I would ignore any media that considers using vintage keyboards to suddenly result in playing classic prog of the 70's.
Such persons are only judging certain sounds and not the whole band/whole sound in general
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Warthur
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 06 2008
Location: London, UK
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Points: 617
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 16:27 |
SMSM wrote:
So he wants his music to be known as the new wave of progressive rock?
New Wave was another term for poppy punk bands and sometimes applied to new romantic bands like the Flock of Seagulls etc |
Did you see how IQ dressed in the early years?
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Roland113
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 19:25 |
So I've been travelling for the past two weeks and really haven't had any time to devote to this thread despite my interest in it. I spent the last hour reading all eleven pages and have a few thoughts to share. Off the bat, I will go on record with saying that I love Neoprog and have no problem with the term. This is my opinion, but as a general rule, I enjoy the neo bands that use modern technology to influence their craft over modern bands that try to recreate the music of the seventies by emulating the Melotron every chance they get. Every one has their own preference, I get it. There are going to be just as many that hate the cheese of modern synths or the noise of a modern sounding, distorted and heavy guitar while they long for a Hammond solo over a soft accoustic twelve string. I think the division of the two categories is important and something that absolutely needs to be maintained. Others mentioned this, but categorizing music makes it easier for those of us that want to use the classifications to find similar music. Yes, I appreciate the one guy that likes to use the alphabet to find their music, but please allow me to be a bit Neo and use modern technology to make my searching a bit more effeciant.
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Roland113
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 19:29 |
On a different matter, I totally see the comparissons between Suppers Ready and Harvest of Souls. Here is an excerpt from a review of Dark Matter that I did in 2009: . . . and now we come to the big epic ending. I'm sorry, but this is one of the less inspired of IQ's epics. I jokingly refer to it as "Harvest of Suppers" due to the extreme similarities to the previously mentioned "Supper's Ready" (SR) by Genesis. "Harvest of Souls" (HOS) starts off with an oddly familiar twelve string guitar arpeggio which goes as far as to start with the same exact note as SR. The soft guitar lasts for the first four minutes before it transitions to a more upbeat organ led part, again, similar to SR. If that's not enough, on SR the drums start at four minutes, twenty three seconds, on HOS, the drums appear at four minutes sixteen seconds. After about a minute, the upbeat part ends to return to another soft interlude followed by a chaotic section. Yes, the previous sentence applies to both songs. You get the point, both songs have a total stop in the middle, in SR it's just before "Willow Farms", in HOS it's just before the "Frame and Form" section, both at about the half way point of the song. The "Mortal Procession" section uses the same 6/8 rhythm as in "Born Brilliant" which again is a call back to "Apocalypse in 9/8". Finally, both pieces have the big ending, long drawn out chords and vocal climax. Basically, "Harvest of Souls" is an updated version of "Supper's Ready". Pardon me, but I prefer the original. The whole review can be found here: Yeah, I've felt that the two songs were very similar for years.
Edited by Roland113 - January 25 2013 at 21:05
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Roland113
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 20:17 |
. . . and finally . . . (Yes, I separated my thoughts into three separate posts to keep the individual thoughts distinct from each other.) Regarding Invisible Touch, it is so incredibly easy to bash the album twenty five years after it was released. In doing so, you are marginalizing the infuence that it had on modern prog. Like it or not, it was probably the most infuential album in my life.
M27Barney wrote:
. . . and who wouldn't - Genesis decided that their old fans should be consigned to history and set about entertaining a whole lot of teeny boppers whilst trousering huge wads of cash...
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Please Rob, explain to me how they consigned their old fans to history yet still played "In the Cage" and "Cinema Show" on the tour? Each and every tour that they did from Abacab and onwards included some componant of their older prog music. No, they didn't play 70's prog throughout the entire show, any band that focused exclusively on their older material and ignored the current album would be shooting itself in the foot. Yeah, you can talk about them selling out, but how much of the third wave first got into prog from the populatity of this album?
Tom Ozrics wrote:
give me 'The Wake' over 'Invisible Douche' anyday...
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Really? Way to keep it classy and respectful. Though you did manage to get a few tag alongs.  As I alluded to earlier, Invisible Touch (and 90125 for the Yes camp) was a horribly influential album and frankly was a gateway to an entire generation of prog listeners. In the late eighties, prog was pretty much dead here in America. We had little access to Marillion and even less to IQ and Pendragon. Unless you had a cool Dad or older brother that liked the classics, you were pretty much out of luck. MTV was in it's heyday and popular music pretty much conformed to the tastes of MTV's audiences. Big hair was in as was half naked trollops (don't get me wrong, I loved the trollops, they just wern't producing great music). Yet, somehow, three middle aged guys with a bald lead singer manager to break through the barriers of the day with an album that not only sold millions, but was pretty damn good musically especially when compared to the majority of music being produced at the time. Tonight Tonight Tonight was a legitimate hit that had definite prog leanings and obviously, Domino and The Brazillian had heavier prog influences. The important thing here is that it inspired a generation of teeny boppers to explore the Genesis back catalog and get blown away by Selling England. It's not just me, there are a slew of other fans that I've talked to over the years that feel similar. It is easy to listen to the electronic drums on Invisible Touch and say they sound like crapby today's standards, but it's as much the sound of the eighties as mellotrons and organs epitomize the sound of the seventies. Yes, I realize that I may be taking the comments here a bit personally, but frankly, I'm not going to sit around and listen to one of my favorite albums be absolutely disrepected by a leader on thie site for a few sophmoric laughs and then watch a few of the more respected members on the site encourage the behaviour. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really expect a higher level of class here. I'm not going to say that Invisible Touch is as good as Selling England, but without Invisible Touch, many of your forty year old teeny boppers wouldn't be on the site today.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 20:59 |
Roland113 wrote:
. . . and finally . . . (Yes, I separated my thoughts into three separate posts to keep the individual thoughts distinct from each other.) Regarding Invisible Touch, it is so incredibly easy to bash the album twenty five years after it was released. In doing so, you are marginalizing the infuence that it had on modern prog. Like it or not, it was probably the most infuential album in my life.
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I bashed the album the day I heard it for the first time, about 25 years ago.
I don't believe it's influential for anything.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 26 2013 at 00:14
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 22:56 |
............and put it this way - I was not too impressed when I heard I.T. back in 1987 - most of its songs were getting airplay, and only the 'Domino' epic was memorable for me. When I heard the self-titled album at the same time in 1987, it was a different story.......haha heh, owww............
I will apologise for the offensive name I gave it, but I won't apologise for not liking the damn thing........
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rogerthat
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Posted: January 25 2013 at 23:02 |
I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either. I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog.
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jude111
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Joined: October 20 2009
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Posted: January 26 2013 at 00:27 |
Roland113 wrote:
. . . and finally . . . Regarding Invisible Touch, it is so incredibly easy to bash the album twenty five years after it was released. In doing so, you are marginalizing the infuence that it had on modern prog. Like it or not, it was probably the most infuential album in my life. |
ok
Edited by jude111 - January 26 2013 at 01:18
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Roland113
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Posted: January 26 2013 at 14:09 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
............and put it this way - I was not too impressed when I heard I.T. back in 1987 - most of its songs were getting airplay, and only the 'Domino' epic was memorable for me. When I heard the self-titled album at the same time in 1987, it was a different story.......haha heh, owww............
I will apologise for the offensive name I gave it, but I won't apologise for not liking the damn thing........ |
Thanks Tom, I appreciate that.
and it was only the insult that I took offense at, not that you didn't like it :)
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Roland113
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Posted: January 26 2013 at 14:23 |
rogerthat wrote:
I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either. I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog. |
I might have made too big of a leap there, I knew the connection that I was trying to make.
What I was trying to say is that Invisible Touch got a lot of people of my generation interested in prog, it was a gateway drug if you will. While the music is not entirely what provided the inspiration, it was so popular that it caused many of us to explore more prog.
Here's my personal story, I loved Invisible Touch, the album. Told my Dad about it, he said, 'Oh, you like Genesis, let me play some of their older stuff'.' So he put in "A Trick of the Tail" and I was instantly hooked on Dance on a Volcano. Honest to God, when he told me that Peter Gabriel (who was also tearing up the charts with Sledgehammer) used to be the lead singer of Genesis, I didn't believe him. Sure enough, he got out the vinyl edition of Selling England and I loved it.
Without Invisible Touch, that conversation wouldn't have happened and I may not have become an avid prog fan. Over the years, mostly on here, I have had similar conversations with other people my age. It's not just me.
While the music of Invisible Touch ultimately wasn't influential on the third wave, the album was responsible for opening the door for many of the musicians that make up the so called third wave.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Posted: January 26 2013 at 15:38 |
Roland113 wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either. I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog. |
I might have made too big of a leap there, I knew the connection that I was trying to make.
What I was trying to say is that Invisible Touch got a lot of people of my generation interested in prog, it was a gateway drug if you will. While the music is not entirely what provided the inspiration, it was so popular that it caused many of us to explore more prog.
Here's my personal story, I loved Invisible Touch, the album. Told my Dad about it, he said, 'Oh, you like Genesis, let me play some of their older stuff'.' So he put in "A Trick of the Tail" and I was instantly hooked on Dance on a Volcano. Honest to God, when he told me that Peter Gabriel (who was also tearing up the charts with Sledgehammer) used to be the lead singer of Genesis, I didn't believe him. Sure enough, he got out the vinyl edition of Selling England and I loved it.
Without Invisible Touch, that conversation wouldn't have happened and I may not have become an avid prog fan. Over the years, mostly on here, I have had similar conversations with other people my age. It's not just me.
While the music of Invisible Touch ultimately wasn't influential on the third wave, the album was responsible for opening the door for many of the musicians that make up the so called third wave. |
An astute and very knowing post. Absolutely correct in its telling.
My experience was with Duke. I had listened to Genesis since being introduced to Wind & Wuthering. I loved ATTWT, and Duke even more. When I was at school one day, a friend came up with a vinyl copy of Nursery Cryme, and said to me "look at the names on this. Gabriel, Hackett. Bloody brilliant, and all because you introduced me to the band".
A lot of fans were introduced to "classic" prog by such albums, and I know Invisible Touch was amongst them.
To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy.
Edited by lazland - January 26 2013 at 15:39
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: January 26 2013 at 18:04 |
Roland113 wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
............and put it this way - I was not too impressed when I heard I.T. back in 1987 - most of its songs were getting airplay, and only the 'Domino' epic was memorable for me. When I heard the self-titled album at the same time in 1987, it was a different story.......haha heh, owww............
I will apologise for the offensive name I gave it, but I won't apologise for not liking the damn thing........ |
Thanks Tom, I appreciate that.
and it was only the insult that I took offense at, not that you didn't like it :)
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I follow what you say  I agree that I.T. is a gateway for discovering Prog...... - if it's possible, somehow to remove the offensive word or my original post which contained it.......?? Very childish of me....... 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:10 |
Lazland wrote:
To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy. |
Why?
I heard it several times but hate it, it is horrendous and in my opinion less than mediocre, I don't believe that anybody who heard that album will be hooked with Foxtrot or Nursery Cryme (With a couple of exceptions), because there's absolutely no connection except for three names.
If you like it it's OK, but let us express our opinions, for me is an aberration to see the name of the band who recorded Supper's Ready or The Musical Box playing Tonight, Tonight Tonight or Throwing it all Again.
And it's not my opinion alone, the average is 2.35 while all the Gabriel era albums are near 5 stars, with 53% of the reviewers placing it between 1 and 2 stars.
It's OK if you like it, everybody has a taste, but it's ok to hate it and believe it's an aberration without the need of calling those who disagree intellectually lazy..I bashed the album hundreds of times, because I believe it deserves bashing, but never called names to those that love it.
I believe it's artistically lazy to release that album....But commercially profitable for the trio, and that's Ok if what they wanted is the money before anything.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 10:11
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:17 |
^They always wanted success and money from the very beginning. But I don;t ubnderstand why it is lazy.
Besides Steve didn't call people who dislike it intellectually lazy, he called that to people who continually slam it. It gets boring to read too
Ha ha Invisible Cruth is crap..ha ha.
Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 10:25
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:31 |
Snow Dog wrote:
^They always wanted success and money from the very beginning. But I don;t ubnderstand why it is lazy.
Besides Steve didn't call people who dislike it intellectually lazy, he called that to people who continually slam it. It gets boring to read too
Ha ha Invisible Cruth is crap..ha ha. |
I believe it's lazy, because being capable musicians, they ceased to search for quality and went for easy money.
Lately it seems offensive to love Prog, people call Prog lovers by many names, from arrogant, self indulgent to Prog snobs, and seem to forget we are here because our common love for Prog.
It seems more popular to bash ELP than to say anything about 3 men Genesis.
But at the end, allow people to voice their opinions about the album, this is not personal, honestly i prefer using it as a Frisbee than listening it.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 10:35
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
stop the "Neo" prog label ?
