stop the "Neo" prog label ?

Now, Octopus, we're trying to downplay similarities to Genesis here!

Snow, but I never was after the last word on the subject lol!! I don't feel the need to `never rest until I've proven you and Hercules wrong', etc! I only gave my opinion where I felt the piece was similar, but I've already explained that it never `ruined' the fine album for me, and you clearly have your own opinions on the matter, which is fine too!

^Give me both.

Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote: Now, Tom, Banks and Rutherford clearly walked hand in hand with Tarzan Collins into that `commercial slaughterhouse' together...probably skipping, too! Man, `The Wake'! Perfect example of how good and original great `Neo-Prog' can be....I love that almost New-Wave vocal Nicholls uses on that album, really gives it a lot of unique identity. Very individual and original sounding album from them!

Yes it is - and Orford uses both vintage keys and some modern gear - great sounds.  And I picture maybe Rutherford and Collins skipping, with Banks in tow considering the potential dosh factor - hey, who wants to work hard for big bucks anyway ???? 

Snow Dog wrote: ^Give me both.

Give me 'Genesis' from 1983, or even 'We Can't Dance' over I.T. anyday.  I worship Genesis, 'Domino' was the only worthwhile piece that was remotely Proggy on I.T. 

Now, Tom, I always thought you more or less defended those later 80's onwards Genesis albums, at least for the better stuff on them! I know I have! Phil and co had every right to move in whatever direction they damn well pleased!

Who knows, perhaps to top-40 loving pop audiences `Invisible Touch' and so on might have come across as a deeply involved, complex and `daring' pop album, the likes of which commercial audiences had not heard before.....Oh God, I'm kind of rambling and reaching now, right?

At least during that period IQ, Pendragon, Marillion, etc were offering more involving yet accessible albums with stronger progressive elements in addition to the poppy stuff to keep us happy!

lazland wrote: Tom Ozric wrote: Snow Dog wrote: ^Give me both. Give me 'Genesis' from 1983, or even 'We Can't Dance' over I.T. anyday.  I worship Genesis, 'Domino' was the only worthwhile piece that was remotely Proggy on I.T.  The Brazilian and Tonight......weren't?

Yeah, I suppose, but that's it.  Then again, I'm a big fan of Chicago 16........... - maybe most of Invisible Touch has been overplayed to death to the point that I just can't dig it anymore ???

Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote: Now, Tom, I always thought you more or less defended those later 80's onwards Genesis albums, at least for the better stuff on them! I know I have! Phil and co had every right to move in whatever direction they damn well pleased! Who knows, perhaps to top-40 loving pop audiences `Invisible Touch' and so on might have come across as a deeply involved, complex and `daring' pop album, the likes of which commercial audiences had not heard before.....Oh God, I'm kind of rambling and reaching now, right? At least during that period IQ, Pendragon, Marillion, etc were offering more involving yet accessible albums with stronger progressive elements in addition to the poppy stuff to keep us happy!

Dude, yes I defend Genesis, but I have problems with Invisible Touch - I'm sure I've voiced it loud......

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Tom Ozric wrote: If you ask me (which no-one has....) I say that I.Q. (and/or) Marillion are what Genesis should've sounded like in the 80's, had Gabriel and Hackett not bailed and have Disney Collins lead the remnants to the commercial slaughterhouse of the babbling masses...........give me 'The Wake' over 'Invisible Douche' anyday....... I fully agree

lazland wrote: I loathe the continual sniping at Genesis post 1978. They gave me a lot of great music which I continue to enjoy to this day. Actually, I find that sniping rather intellectually lazy, given that all three of them were responsible for the  latter albums. Not just Collins. What about Grendel and Harvest of Souls? Both are clearly influenced by Genesis, of that there is no doubt. Actually, I find the two tracks in question to be miles apart in terms of quality and production values. Grendel was the b side of Market Square Heroes. It was a statement by Marillion of their influences, but, in truth, it doesn't even begin to compare with the band's latter output, even with Fish, let alone Hogarth. IQ have never hidden the origins of their influence. However, I tend to agree with Ian here. It is plain that Harvest of Souls is influenced by "classic" Genesis. It is probably my most played track by the band, and no matter how many times I listen to it, I could never, ever, state that it is a Suppers Ready "copy". It stands alone fine as a fine piece of music in its own right, and I love it even more for that. In other words, they took a basic template, and stamped their own authority on it, which is as good a definition of neo as I could hope to give.

Great post although Orford at the time was not happy about the comparisons being drawn between IQ's music and Genesis. He actually stated it was a complete coincidence because IQ had exactly the same make up in terms of numbers and instruments being played. I found it a bit fishy at the time and still do tbh.But  IQ are and will remain one of my favourite bands. BTW they followed their own template on Frequency and it worked brilliantly.

richardh wrote: lazland wrote: I loathe the continual sniping at Genesis post 1978. They gave me a lot of great music which I continue to enjoy to this day. Actually, I find that sniping rather intellectually lazy, given that all three of them were responsible for the  latter albums. Not just Collins. What about Grendel and Harvest of Souls? Both are clearly influenced by Genesis, of that there is no doubt. Actually, I find the two tracks in question to be miles apart in terms of quality and production values. Grendel was the b side of Market Square Heroes. It was a statement by Marillion of their influences, but, in truth, it doesn't even begin to compare with the band's latter output, even with Fish, let alone Hogarth. IQ have never hidden the origins of their influence. However, I tend to agree with Ian here. It is plain that Harvest of Souls is influenced by "classic" Genesis. It is probably my most played track by the band, and no matter how many times I listen to it, I could never, ever, state that it is a Suppers Ready "copy". It stands alone fine as a fine piece of music in its own right, and I love it even more for that. In other words, they took a basic template, and stamped their own authority on it, which is as good a definition of neo as I could hope to give.  Great post although Orford at the time was not happy about the comparisons being drawn between IQ's music and Genesis. He actually stated it was a complete coincidence because IQ had exactly the same make up in terms of numbers and instruments being played. I found it a bit fishy at the time and still do tbh.But  IQ are and will remain one of my favourite bands. BTW they followed their own template on Frequency and it worked brilliantly.