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awaken77 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2008
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Points: 374
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 Posted: January 20 2013 at 10:25 |
 Hercules wrote:
rdtprog wrote:
The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
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Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else. |
Agree on that. One more journalist's cliche. I read review on Marillion 1st, ans author claimed that Grendel is a Supper's ready rip-off. It seems like that he never listened both :-(
The only similarity b/w Marillion'83 and Genesis is a vocalist, particularly voice timbre. Arrangement and songwriting is different.
Edited by awaken77 - January 20 2013 at 10:29
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
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Points: 7024
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:34 |
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:44 |
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
I played Harvest of Souls again and still do not hear it. Something is wrong with me possibly. Maybe you can only hear it properly on LP with a tube amp.
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Dean
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:55 |
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
If it is so that a band can be influenced/inspired by another band then a song by a band can influence/inspire a song by another band.
No one has claimed that either song is a copy of Supper's Ready.
Edited by Dean - January 20 2013 at 16:55
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:57 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album! |
richardh wrote:
The connection between Harvest Of Souls and Suppers Ready is very obvious
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Edited by Snow Dog - January 20 2013 at 17:01
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Dean
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:02 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album!  |
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Fair enough - he did say that it was a carbon copy.
Got a similar quote for Grendel yet?
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:02 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album! |
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Fair enough - he did say that it was a carbon copy.
Got a similar quote for Grendel yet? |
Haven't checked. 
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:09 |
Dean wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
If it is so that a band can be influenced/inspired by another band then a song by a band can influence/inspire a song by another band.
No one has claimed that either song is a copy of Supper's Ready. |
Oh no?
Sean Trane "So much had been said for so many years about Grendel as a masterpiece and was cruelly deceived when I found this poorman's Supper by You-know-who".
South Side of the Sky "The collection opens with the 17 plus minute Grendel which is a Genesis' Supper's Ready-clone if there ever was one"
Both taken from reviews of B'Sides Themselves.
I rest my case.
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Dean
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:11 |
Oh right - more carbon copies.
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What?
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:26 |
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Sigh! I always thought the similarities between the two were in the following sections:
IQ's `First of the Last' sounds somewhat similar to `Lover's Leap', especially those guitars that start at about 2:35.
Parts of `The Wrong Host' sound like sections of `The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man'
The section of `Mortal Procession' that starts at 17:50 sounds just like `Gods of Magog' parts of `Apocalypse in 9/8'
The outro organ/guitar solo of `Ghosts of Days' sounds rather similar to the final moments of `As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs'.
I'm sure there are others who've picked up other little similarities that I've missed?
Anyway, I really hadn't want to this drag on, but I sure wasn't making some lone solitary statement, it's been mentioned regularly on the Forums here and there by numerous posters.
But I truly LOVE `Harvest of Souls', as I do the whole album! Loved it since the day I bought so many year ago, so certainly not trying to dis-credit it. The section of `Harvest' called `Nocturne' is truly beautiful and filled with great lyrics and a touching vocal from Nicholls!
Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - January 20 2013 at 17:45
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FunkyM
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Joined: November 12 2010
Location: Funkytown
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Points: 134
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 21:55 |
awaken77 wrote:
I consider "neo-prog" only original bands from beginning of 80-thies (Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, etc) |
That's what I mainly think of when I hear the term "neo-prog" too, although I would be willing to accept bands from later than the 1980s that make music in a similar style as also being neo-prog. (Unless we want to call them Neo-neo-prog.) In regards to what Martin Orford wrote, I just don't see what the problem is with prog music fans using the label "neo-prog". If I understand the term correctly, "neo" stands for "new" and "prog" stands for progressive rock. I guess I'm missing something here, but that seems to be almost exactly what he wants his music to be categorized under. According to his article his main beef seems to be that a number of people have a low opinion of the neo-prog style in general, which leads him to believe that "neo-prog" is a derisive term. But wouldn't people who treat "neo-prog" with derision do so whether the music was called neo-prog or the "New Wave of Progressive
Rock"?
Edited by FunkyM - January 20 2013 at 21:56
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 22:14 |
FunkyM wrote:
According to his article his main beef seems to be that a number of people have a low opinion of the neo-prog style in general, which leads him to believe that "neo-prog" is a derisive term. But wouldn't people who treat "neo-prog" with derision do so whether the music was called neo-prog or the "New Wave of Progressive
Rock"?
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Yep. I'm still gonna give a few more Neo Prog items I haven't heard a try no matter what, but I'm not going to all of the sudden like Misplaced Childhood just because the name of its sub genre changed. And the name of the sub genre would not deter me from checking something out. That's what I use reviews, forum recommendations and YouTube for. Positive comments in favor of Neo Prog as many have already given would be more effective than changing the name, which is just spin control.
Edited by HackettFan - January 20 2013 at 22:48
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 03:16 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Sigh! I always thought the similarities between the two were in the following sections:
IQ's `First of the Last' sounds somewhat similar to `Lover's Leap', especially those guitars that start at about 2:35.
Parts of `The Wrong Host' sound like sections of `The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man'
The section of `Mortal Procession' that starts at 17:50 sounds just like `Gods of Magog' parts of `Apocalypse in 9/8'
The outro organ/guitar solo of `Ghosts of Days' sounds rather similar to the final moments of `As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs'.
I'm sure there are others who've picked up other little similarities that I've missed?
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You can't convince me.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 04:24 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Sigh! I always thought the similarities between the two were in the following sections:
IQ's `First of the Last' sounds somewhat similar to `Lover's Leap', especially those guitars that start at about 2:35.
Parts of `The Wrong Host' sound like sections of `The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man'
The section of `Mortal Procession' that starts at 17:50 sounds just like `Gods of Magog' parts of `Apocalypse in 9/8'
The outro organ/guitar solo of `Ghosts of Days' sounds rather similar to the final moments of `As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs'.
I'm sure there are others who've picked up other little similarities that I've missed?
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You can't convince me. |
Nor I. I've listened to both hundreds of times and it just doesn't stack up.
I bet if you analysed Ralph Vaughan Williams' music you'd find passages which had something in common with Beethoven - but it doesn't mean he copied him.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 04:45 |
 
Always a pleasure guys!
I really can't be bothered going on about this anymore! Just take a search on Google and you'll find endless comments/reviews that have come to the same conclusions about the similarites! It wasn't me who just all of a sudden cracked the code and came up with this `controversial' opinion!
To my ears, from the VERY FIRST LISTEN I thought `Hmmm, that's a shame they stuck to the Genesis/Suppers Ready' template there', so it's odd that on REPEATED listens you still can't detect it!
Either way, `Dark Matter' is a terrific album, and a few slight influences from a band they obviously love is totally insignificant.
And honestly, I don't have deodorant strong enough to last me the length it will take to reach an amicable conclusion over this matter, which is truly nearing the `beating a dead horse' stage!
If anything, time to get back to the original topic instead of pointless stubbornness that's going around in circles! 
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juliazoe4
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Joined: January 21 2013
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 05:22 |
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I can't think of anyone as likely to turn
up on a list of Best Lyricists AND a list of Worst Lyricists.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 05:30 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Always a pleasure guys!
I really can't be bothered going on about this anymore! Just take a search on Google and you'll find endless comments/reviews that have come to the same conclusions about the similarites! It wasn't me who just all of a sudden cracked the code and came up with this `controversial' opinion!
To my ears, from the VERY FIRST LISTEN I thought `Hmmm, that's a shame they stuck to the Genesis/Suppers Ready' template there', so it's odd that on REPEATED listens you still can't detect it!
Either way, `Dark Matter' is a terrific album, and a few slight influences from a band they obviously love is totally insignificant.
And honestly, I don't have deodorant strong enough to last me the length it will take to reach an amicable conclusion over this matter, which is truly nearing the `beating a dead horse' stage!
If anything, time to get back to the original topic instead of pointless stubbornness that's going around in circles! |
If you think I am simply being stubborn then I am little disappointed in you. Oh well, live and let live.
I'll still talk to you in the comics thread
Edited by Snow Dog - January 21 2013 at 05:34
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 05:34 |
Oh man, I just don't want this blowing up into `a thing'!
The Archives the last few days has been awful with all this tension, so we don't need more of that. I come here to get AWAY from tension and drama!
More of this would be better! --> 
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 05:36 |
^What tension? In this thread?
Can't you accept that Hercules and I don't hear the connection? Why do you need to try and prove it? Why the need for the last word on the subject? I am quite happy not believing in this "copy"
Edited by Snow Dog - January 21 2013 at 05:37
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octopus-4
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 05:37 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Oh man, I just don't want this blowing up into `a thing'!
The Archives the last few days has been awful with all this tension, so we don't need more of that. I come here to get AWAY from tension and drama!
More of this would be better! --> |
The supper was ready so Grendel has eaten it 
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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stop the "Neo" prog label ?
