Abundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog

moshkito wrote: Musicianship, will NEVER die! ... it will ONLY change! Look at the history of music ... you are saying that Beethoven could not have written those 34 lines of music on the staff for his Symphonies, and neither could Puccini ... 34 mind you ... not just 4 musicians and instruments like 90% of rock music!   May I suggest that you look at these things again ... you are getting stuck in semantics, and not looking at music history at all ... other than the more superficial and vain story of rock and popular music!

Dean wrote: To my ears, Lennon and McCartney songs (and here I mean the basic song before any contribution by other band members) are the epitome of one-man compositions because they are singer-songwriter compositions, (this is difficult to explain): often in Beatles songs the "tune" is not carried by one instrument - they need the accompaniment to resolve the composition from a music theory point of view - a dissonance in the vocal melody would be resolved in the accompanying guitar or piano chords - they are songs written by one man with a guitar or sat at a keyboard. Sure the other band members add their bits later, or add a refrain or middle-eight or counterpoint/harmony thus modifying the initial song, but the basic song composition remains.

This is a good point because the discussion in this thread has been about the question of whether there is creative superiority to be found from the real time interaction of jamming. Any other sort of collaboration I expect should not be sufficient (not by my view but by the thesis of the thread).

Edited by HackettFan - January 06 2013 at 10:42

Lots of people want to make this into computer programming versus playing. That is certainly something to think about on it's own merits, but Gerinsky's claim is stronger. He's saying even if a musician plays not only his own instrument but all of them there will still an inherent creativity gap between that and a band (at least for band oriented music, I think he's qualified that already). While there might be something real about band interaction, I don't know how we find evidence for it's effect on creativity. People have identified other things that influence creativity. One of the most common is hardship. However, I don't think either band interaction or hardship are necessary for creativity of high order. Sometimes, in my view, it's just about being open and observant or getting in touch with one's inner child.

If you take computers out of it and force musicians to record on tape... then you eliminate a lot of the dishonestly.  Better if you eliminate post recorded effects processing.  I say this because running an effect between you and the output of an amp WILL CHANGE THE WAY YOU PLAY in that moment.  Adding later never sounds natural.  Your ears need to hear it in the moment.

Fix it by doing the take over... better if you have some pressure because you are blowing your money on studio time.  The leads one to PREPARE and PRACTICE before booking time. Not sitting in your room doing 30 takes into a laptop.

The old way was the better way... and we got much better music product with more limitations put on musicians.

People used to love going to concerts because the music sounded better than the records..

For one, the musicians had some time to play the music out for a while on tour... let it breathe, and develop.  It was exciting because it was in the moment...  there was an expectation to perform well...and for the fans to enjoy that experience..

If I see another drummer playing live with headphones on I am going to throw up....

Get rid of the click tracks...and audio cues in the headphones... let the music breathe a bit.   Keep it real..
It's like being on stage but riding around on a tricycle... or using crutches. How dare bands charge people for this nonsense.

I want to see guitars running into amps... NOT DIRECT INTO THE BOARD...  I want to hear a Hammond played through a Leslie rotary cabinet.. not a digital keyboard plugged into a modeling processor controlled by a sound guy 50 feet off the stage.

Listening to other's music and jamming with other people helps the lone musician choosing ingredients for the next pieces.

Surrealist wrote: If you take computers out of it and force musicians to record on tape... then you eliminate a lot of the dishonestly.  Better if you eliminate post recorded effects processing.  I say this because running an effect between you and the output of an amp WILL CHANGE THE WAY YOU PLAY in that moment.  Adding later never sounds natural.  Your ears need to hear it in the moment. ...

Surrealist wrote: If you take computers out of it and force musicians to record on tape... then you eliminate a lot of the dishonestly.  Better if you eliminate post recorded effects processing.  I say this because running an effect between you and the output of an amp WILL CHANGE THE WAY YOU PLAY in that moment.  Adding later never sounds natural.  Your ears need to hear it in the moment. Fix it by doing the take over... better if you have some pressure because you are blowing your money on studio time.  The leads one to PREPARE and PRACTICE before booking time. Not sitting in your room doing 30 takes into a laptop. The old way was the better way... and we got much better music product with more limitations put on musicians. People used to love going to concerts because the music sounded better than the records.. For one, the musicians had some time to play the music out for a while on tour... let it breathe, and develop.  It was exciting because it was in the moment...  there was an expectation to perform well...and for the fans to enjoy that experience.. If I see another drummer playing live with headphones on I am going to throw up.... Get rid of the click tracks...and audio cues in the headphones... let the music breathe a bit.   Keep it real.. It's like being on stage but riding around on a tricycle... or using crutches. How dare bands charge people for this nonsense. I want to see guitars running into amps... NOT DIRECT INTO THE BOARD...  I want to hear a Hammond played through a Leslie rotary cabinet.. not a digital keyboard plugged into a modeling processor controlled by a sound guy 50 feet off the stage.

What I am talking about is a guitarist who is adding distortion, sustain, a chorus pedal, flanger, compressor, wah wah etc..

Those sounds need to be happening while they are playing so they can hear them while they are playing.  If you play it clean then add the effect later.. it's going to sound very unnatural, and not good. 

I know plenty of drummers who are getting click track feeds into their headphones.. playing along with pre recorded beats and so on.. Dean, what rock have you been living under?

My point is simple..

Prog bands are not staying together because there is no money, not enough good gigs, no major label interest, not many festivals... and a total lack of interest from today's brain dead music consumers.  So one man bands are happening like scraping the bottom of a toxic music barrel. 

I am not blaming one man bands... I'm sure most of them would rather be in a real band with serious musicians who love playing Prog..  but there is no upside to Prog now..

All the great Prog bands were live bands.  They to some degree had to keep their albums honest because they were expected to reproduce those sounds live.. or.. they would have to substitute with more ambitious live playing like Zeppelin did.

The Louvre with be around and of interest to future generations for a lot longer than the Computer museum in San Jose.  Digital art played on flat screens will have about as much longevity as a Mac Donalds french fry.

A persons itunes library will not have the lasting quality level of a great vinyl collection. 

If you don't understand this.. you need to have your ears examined.

I think music should be enjoyed in whatever format it comes in.

Surrealist wrote: A persons itunes library will not have the lasting quality level of a great vinyl collection.

Hmmm. Interesting point. My grandparents had heirlooms going back a few generations. But my parents' stuff won't last a generation. My father (83 this year) had a rare treasured sports car that slowly disintegrated due to the salt air. Things are ephemeral today; not to mention the decline of the West. Music is reflecting this.

One of my favorite albums ever is My Bloody Valentine's LOVELESS, which always sounded to me like a vinyl record left to melt in the sun. See what I mean? Great music today reflects this ephemeral quality (e.g. hauntology, like Burial's UNTRUE and The Caretaker's AN EMPTY BLISS...).


Edited by jude111 - January 07 2013 at 01:20