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Topic Closed3rd Album by 3 Prog Giants

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Poll Question: Which one is your favorite junior effort
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
21 [20.00%]
44 [41.90%]
40 [38.10%]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2012 at 22:42
Damn...
My other avatar is a Porsche

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2012 at 22:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Seriously, attempting to deny that Floyd or Rush are more accessible than KC is just silly.   
I'm not sure if that's what he meant. To me it just looks like he doesn't seem to be concerned about what's on the radio ... unless I'm missing something.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 31 2012 at 22:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 00:30
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Seriously, attempting to deny that Floyd or Rush are more accessible than KC is just silly.   
I'm not sure if that's what he meant. To me it just looks like he doesn't seem to be concerned about what's on the radio ... unless I'm missing something.

Well, he first claimed that there's nothing accessible in prog and when Sumdeus said Floyd, Rush, JT get played on the radio he said that has nothing to do with accessibility.  Maybe, but the point is they are accessible.  If ABITW is not accessible, I don't really know what is.   Sounds like denying a statement just to maintain position in an argument.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 00:33
Genesis on this one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 01:54
Wow, this one really got out of hand.  And now for something completely different:   Back to topic
 
1. The Yes Album
2. Nursery Cryme
3. Lizard
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 05:02
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Sumdeus Sumdeus wrote:

in the grand scheme of things, yes, prog is not a very accessible genre, but it still has some bands that are accessible. There's a reason Pink Floyd and Rush are on the radio but King Crimson and Gentle Giant are not.

Who cares if they are played on the radio, so is classical music???Ermm

Another example of your close minded rejection of another person's statement (and yet you want all the respect in the world for your own opinions!).    Ever heard Money?  And ever heard Fracture?   Quick, which is the more accessible song of the two?   Is there any KC track as accessible as Another Brick in the Wall or Spirit of Radio?   It's just an observation, to say that a band is more accessible than another doesn't detract from it.   Don't you think it would be better to consider a statement before jumping to dismiss it?  

 


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 01 2013 at 05:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 05:05
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Seriously, attempting to deny that Floyd or Rush are more accessible than KC is just silly.   
I'm not sure if that's what he meant. To me it just looks like he doesn't seem to be concerned about what's on the radio ... unless I'm missing something.

Well, he first claimed that there's nothing accessible in prog and when Sumdeus said Floyd, Rush, JT get played on the radio he said that has nothing to do with accessibility.  Maybe, but the point is they are accessible.  If ABITW is not accessible, I don't really know what is.   Sounds like denying a statement just to maintain position in an argument.

I'm not denying anything all I said was who cares if something is played on the radio
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 05:15
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Seriously, attempting to deny that Floyd or Rush are more accessible than KC is just silly.   
I'm not sure if that's what he meant. To me it just looks like he doesn't seem to be concerned about what's on the radio ... unless I'm missing something.

Well, he first claimed that there's nothing accessible in prog and when Sumdeus said Floyd, Rush, JT get played on the radio he said that has nothing to do with accessibility.  Maybe, but the point is they are accessible.  If ABITW is not accessible, I don't really know what is.   Sounds like denying a statement just to maintain position in an argument.

I'm not denying anything all I said was who cares if something is played on the radio


You did deny, mister.  You denied that prog can be accessible.  It seems you wanted to say Book of Saturday is accessible but seem to have edited it out.   Whatever....make up your mind what you want to say.   I repeat, this is just a discussion group, not a battleground for keyboard warriors.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 20:00
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Seriously, attempting to deny that Floyd or Rush are more accessible than KC is just silly.   
I'm not sure if that's what he meant. To me it just looks like he doesn't seem to be concerned about what's on the radio ... unless I'm missing something.

Well, he first claimed that there's nothing accessible in prog and when Sumdeus said Floyd, Rush, JT get played on the radio he said that has nothing to do with accessibility.  Maybe, but the point is they are accessible.  If ABITW is not accessible, I don't really know what is.   Sounds like denying a statement just to maintain position in an argument.

I'm not denying anything all I said was who cares if something is played on the radio


You did deny, mister.  You denied that prog can be accessible.  It seems you wanted to say Book of Saturday is accessible but seem to have edited it out.   Whatever....make up your mind what you want to say.   I repeat, this is just a discussion group, not a battleground for keyboard warriors.

I had a brain fart I didn't know who to talk to when I replied to what you had to say,thanks for actually backing me up.I'm a moron sometimes


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - January 01 2013 at 20:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 20:48
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ I'm aware of Traffic. But I don't remember them using a Mellotron or a saxophone. Traffic were more like a jazzy version of The Animals. Just no symph prog elements. That doesn't make them prog. That makes them proto-prog. Like The Who.

As far as I'm concerned you never really need to use a Mellotron or Sax to be Prog. If one is Jazzy that's enough. Traffic is prog. Eclectic  prog according to this site by your logic The Crims isn't prog?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 21:04
Low Sparks used some electronic device on the sax which made a big synth like sound---think Traffic was a precursor to prog---like other 60's groups--whatever that category is---
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2013 at 23:45
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Eclectic  prog according to this site by your logic The Crims isn't prog?
Do you see this sentence? You slapped two clauses together that are for some reason in the same sentence. What are you trying to say in the sentence? That according to this site Traffic are eclectic prog? Yes, they are. That according to my logic the Crims aren't prog? I never said that. Where did you get that?

If you really think that for a band to be proggy they must have jazz elements, then you are wrong. Ever heard of Popol Vuh? They could do without jazz.

As Mr. twosteves has just pointed out, there were a number of proggy bands that predated prog. Really prog took time to take a shape, though last time I checked In the Court was the first album ever to feature an elaborate mix of classical, jazz, and psychedelia with a dash of experimental music, as well as an interesting instrumentation featuring Mellotron, saxophone, and flute. Traffic were a jazz-rock band, at least. This style had a name - "jazz rock". And it was jazz rock at best. People didn't know at the time what prog was. When In the Court came up, they didn't know name this style had. They came up with one - "progressive rock".


Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 01 2013 at 23:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 00:18
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Eclectic  prog according to this site by your logic The Crims isn't prog?
Do you see this sentence? You slapped two clauses together that are for some reason in the same sentence. What are you trying to say in the sentence? That according to this site Traffic are eclectic prog? Yes, they are. That according to my logic the Crims aren't prog? I never said that. Where did you get that?

If you really think that for a band to be proggy they must have jazz elements, then you are wrong. Ever heard of Popol Vuh? They could do without jazz.

As Mr. twosteves has just pointed out, there were a number of proggy bands that predated prog. Really prog took time to take a shape, though last time I checked In the Court was the first album ever to feature an elaborate mix of classical, jazz, and psychedelia with a dash of experimental music, as well as an interesting instrumentation featuring Mellotron, saxophone, and flute. Traffic were a jazz-rock band, at least. This style had a name - "jazz rock". And it was jazz rock at best. People didn't know at the time what prog was. When In the Court came up, they didn't know name this style had. They came up with one - "progressive rock".

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ I'm aware of Traffic. But I don't remember them using a Mellotron or a saxophone. Traffic were more like a jazzy version of The Animals. Just no symph prog elements. That doesn't make them prog. That makes them proto-prog. Like The Who.

remember writing the underlined That doesn't make them prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 00:48
^ Yes, I do. I'm a human. Last time I checked I was allowed a little room for a mistake. Still, I think they could fit into proto-prog.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 02 2013 at 00:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 00:51
[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq]^ Yes, I do. I'm a human. Last time I checked I was allowed a little room for a mistake.[/QUOTE

Exactly we all make mistakes and no band is perfect. Now you get it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 01:02
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Eclectic  prog according to this site by your logic The Crims isn't prog?
Do you see this sentence? You slapped two clauses together that are for some reason in the same sentence. What are you trying to say in the sentence? That according to this site Traffic are eclectic prog? Yes, they are. That according to my logic the Crims aren't prog? I never said that. Where did you get that?

If you really think that for a band to be proggy they must have jazz elements, then you are wrong. Ever heard of Popol Vuh? They could do without jazz.

As Mr. twosteves has just pointed out, there were a number of proggy bands that predated prog. Really prog took time to take a shape, though last time I checked In the Court was the first album ever to feature an elaborate mix of classical, jazz, and psychedelia with a dash of experimental music, as well as an interesting instrumentation featuring Mellotron, saxophone, and flute. Traffic were a jazz-rock band, at least. This style had a name - "jazz rock". And it was jazz rock at best. People didn't know at the time what prog was. When In the Court came up, they didn't know name this style had. They came up with one - "progressive rock".
 
Saucerful of Secrets and Ars Longa Vita Brevis are two examples of genuine progressive rock albums that preceded ITCOTCK.  The term "progressive rock" was not invented as a result of KC.  
 
Despite you not being able to remember it , Traffic were one of the pioneers of the mellotron in 1967 and it would be a big surprise to Chris Wood to hear that they didn't use saxophones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 01:03
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq]^ Yes, I do. I'm a human. Last time I checked I was allowed a little room for a mistake.[/QUOTE

Exactly we all make mistakes and no band is perfect. Now you get it
I always got it. What's your main point?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 01:07
Originally posted by ten years after ten years after wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Eclectic  prog according to this site by your logic The Crims isn't prog?
Do you see this sentence? You slapped two clauses together that are for some reason in the same sentence. What are you trying to say in the sentence? That according to this site Traffic are eclectic prog? Yes, they are. That according to my logic the Crims aren't prog? I never said that. Where did you get that?

If you really think that for a band to be proggy they must have jazz elements, then you are wrong. Ever heard of Popol Vuh? They could do without jazz.

As Mr. twosteves has just pointed out, there were a number of proggy bands that predated prog. Really prog took time to take a shape, though last time I checked In the Court was the first album ever to feature an elaborate mix of classical, jazz, and psychedelia with a dash of experimental music, as well as an interesting instrumentation featuring Mellotron, saxophone, and flute. Traffic were a jazz-rock band, at least. This style had a name - "jazz rock". And it was jazz rock at best. People didn't know at the time what prog was. When In the Court came up, they didn't know name this style had. They came up with one - "progressive rock".
 
Saucerful of Secrets and Ars Longa Vita Brevis are two examples of genuine progressive rock albums that preceded ITCOTCK.  The term "progressive rock" was not invented as a result of KC.  
 
Despite you not being able to remember it , Traffic were one of the pioneers of the mellotron in 1967 and it would be a big surprise to Chris Wood to hear that they didn't use saxophones.
OK. How about this: The Who Sell Out and Sgt. Pepper are also examples of early prog that preceded Ars Longa Vita Brevis and A Saucerful of Secrets. So, as you can see, the birth of prog was not instantaneous; it took time. That's another thing to recognize. For a lot of people prog started with a particular record, be that one by PF, by The Who, by The Beatles, by The Nice, etc. I like to think that prog started with both Sgt. Pepper and ITCOTCK for their own certain merits. And I never said that, as a result of the coming of KC's music, people invented the term "prog rock".

@ ten years after: Why do you think a lot of people hail ITCOTCK as the seminal prog record?


Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 02 2013 at 02:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 02:56
It's just simply impossible to pinpoint one specific record that started any movement as big as progressive rock. There was so much musical evolution happening at such a fast rate and in so many places.. I think there was just a lot of energy at that time and everyone was kind of searching for a similar thing so they were able to improve upon each other really quickly. I mean 1967 saw the release of Sgt. Pepper, Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, and Are You Experienced? which I've always seen as the foundation of the psychedelic rock genre and after that it grew so much, quickly molding into what would become the prog sound.
Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2013 at 16:17
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq]^ Yes, I do. I'm a human. Last time I checked I was allowed a little room for a mistake.[/QUOTE

Exactly we all make mistakes and no band is perfect. Now you get it
I always got it. What's your main point?

remember writing Fripp is god, your irrationalities, what to do with you, you don't get it
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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