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AEProgman View Drop Down
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1 star just seemed to be a bit extreme...I have just discovered the RPI genre and it has been quite refreshing to me.
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Originally posted by AEProgman AEProgman wrote:

1 star just seemed to be a bit extreme...I have just discovered the RPI genre and it has been quite refreshing to me.

sometimes I wonder if someone who rates a favourite of mine so low is able to see something I don't, but then I remember it's one person's opinion, that is all.  I just gave an album 4 stars that I could have made a convincing case is worth 2 stars, but I like it too much to do that.  Sometimes it's more fun to write/read a bad review than a good one.  So take it in stride
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Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ I hope CCVP is planning on fixing that.

LOL, no. There's nothing to fix

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

I discovered lots of new things from this LE ORME's "Felona e Sorona" review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=854027.

Brilliant sentence: 
" the vocalist's voice is quite plain, average and indistinguishable from the voice of every other Italian singer."

And this one really opened my eyes: 
"The Italian prog scene never struck me as being quite special and even though it has some very powerful and notable exceptions, such as Premiata Forneria Marconi, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Locanda delle Fate, among others, most of the scene has nothing interesting to present at all."

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer. 

And I've always defended that the RPI as a genre does not exists. It has not a a distinguished sound, it is just how people do progressive rock in Italy due to their common cultural background. It completely illogical, really. it would be like putting every other band from every other country that does not sound like the English in separate genres. 

The only exception to that rule would be the krautrock or komische rock, due to its far-reaching influence, distinguished sound and overall will to move things forward. And, look, I defend this thoroughly even though I fully DISLIKE krautrock and LIKE many bands from Italy/listed in RPI. 


Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

What else could he do:
I cant stand this album, everyone else love it, 3 stars.
Its hard to be polite when you know you are aiming for 1 star.

Indeed. Also, I am NOT one to go trolling through PA, giving bad ratings left and right. The majority of my reviews are either 4 stars or 5 stars ratings among almost 190 reviews. Also, since this review I've fired another two low-rating reviews: one for Arjen Lucassen and Akacia, none of which gathered any attention. So maybe you are just being a wee bit selective about what is and what is not supposed to be discussed and actually miss important stuff, like this:

Before Dream Theater's Black Clouds and Silver Linings album came out, there were a series of leaks, some of which were quite spread out through the web. I managed to get some reviews based on them to get nuked, but some were just ignored and exist until today. This review, http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=224852  is a typical example of such; the mix that leaked was much darker and "dirty" than what eventually came to be in the album, there were no bass lines in the mix, it was limited to only the first three songs (so it is obvious that this person could NOT hear any Rush influence, since the ONLY song that was overflowing with them, BEST OF TIMES, was not on the leak, among other things that were quite plain and obvious when this happened. 

[QUOTE=Guldbamsen]Yeah, I read that one too, and my guess is that Caio, at times, enjoys being a tad excessive to generate a bit of controversy. Provocative is perhaps a better word for itLOL Anyway, it's his opinion, and while I definitely don't share it, I think he's allowed to have it.

[/QUOTE]

Thank you.Smile


Edited by CCVP - November 17 2012 at 11:41
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Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.
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Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.

yeah I like it alot too, but it's personal taste.  I like Frank Bornemann's (ELOY) voice, so what do I know?  I do think RPI is more of a genre than most country based boundaries though.  There is a certain emotive operatic aspect to it.  That said, some Italian bands are better served in a different genre.  Very few non Italian bands belong in RPI though  Smile.  I do understand the resistance to defining it as a genre, but I think it fits with a lot of groups.


Edited by kenethlevine - November 17 2012 at 14:38
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^ Yeah, ... categorization can be a biatch.
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I always felt that people who really like RPI (like myself!) think that it's among some of the most exciting, passionate, stylish and tasteful progressive rock you can find.

There are some that DON'T really like the fact that some place the Italian stuff at a higher level, and they can be a little...resentful that it gets given such a status by some?

Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - November 17 2012 at 14:51
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.

yeah I like it alot too, but it's personal taste.  I like Frank Bornemann's (ELOY) voice, so what do I know? 

Frank's problem is merely his thick accent, he does NOT sing out of tune. On Le Orme's case, there are no problems with singing in foreign languages, but the guy still cannot hit many notes. The issues ad different.
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Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

I discovered lots of new things from this LE ORME's "Felona e Sorona" review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=854027.

Brilliant sentence: 
" the vocalist's voice is quite plain, average and indistinguishable from the voice of every other Italian singer.

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Even if he's not a good singer, as you say, Aldo Tagliapietra has one of the most recognizable voices in rock. So reading that "the vocalist's voice is ... indistinguishable from the voice of every other Italian singer" is funny. Please name another similar singer if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

And this one really opened my eyes: 
"The Italian prog scene never struck me as being quite special and even though it has some very powerful and notable exceptions, such as Premiata Forneria Marconi, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Locanda delle Fate, among others, most of the scene has nothing interesting to present at all."

And I've always defended that the RPI as a genre does not exists. It has not a a distinguished sound, it is just how people do progressive rock in Italy due to their common cultural background. It completely illogical, really. it would be like putting every other band from every other country that does not sound like the English in separate genres.

Is RPI a separate genre or not is another question. But Italian bands have strong roots based on rich national traditions, including folk and classical music. Yes, prog of almost every country has its peculiaritis, but no other country has as many prog bands as Italy. And many of these Italian bands are completely different, but the common point is Italian language and national traditions. Thus the sentence "most of the scene has nothing interesting to present at all" is pretty shallow.


Edited by NotAProghead - November 17 2012 at 16:08
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Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.

yeah I like it alot too, but it's personal taste.  I like Frank Bornemann's (ELOY) voice, so what do I know? 

Frank's problem is merely his thick accent, he does NOT sing out of tune. On Le Orme's case, there are no problems with singing in foreign languages, but the guy still cannot hit many notes. The issues ad different.

I understand.  Maybe a better comparison is David Cousins (Strawbs) who is often accused of singing out of tune, yet to me he may be the best vocalist ever to come out of England.  Anyway, nobody would say he sound's like all the other English singers!  Regarding Aldo being out of tune, I can't say as I have noticed it, since many prog singers seem out of tune, whether deliberately or otherwise.  I think musicians call this dissonance or something of the sort.  Perhaps le ORME's melodies are so beautiful that they felt they might benefit from the introduction of a certain degree of dissonance to keep them from being to sweet. Heart

I'm not meaning to diss your review at all...I think it's refreshing to get another view on an album that so many regard as a masterpiece, and to at least acknowledge the points you are making and the reality that, inasmuch as they represent your opinion, they are valid.    This is the reviews discussion thread, not the reviews reporting thread, and I am treating it as such.
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.

yeah I like it alot too, but it's personal taste.  I like Frank Bornemann's (ELOY) voice, so what do I know?  I do think RPI is more of a genre than most country based boundaries though.  There is a certain emotive operatic aspect to it.  That said, some Italian bands are better served in a different genre.  Very few non Italian bands belong in RPI though  Smile.  I do understand the resistance to defining it as a genre, but I think it fits with a lot of groups.

Nothing wrong with Frank Bornemann's voice . To me it is like an old friend everytime I put an Eloy album on. I grew to love it, accent and all. I actually forgot the voice of Le Orme but it is the music I remember and it is BRILLIANT overall.

 
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OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
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Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
Done.  (Short album!)  I found it to be pleasant enough, but nothing particularly special.  Don't hear any out of tune singing, in any case.  Certainly not 1 star, though.  I'd give it 3/5 max.   Probably will not be buying it, but if I did own it I'm sure I'd listen to it now and then.
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I prefer Uomo di Pezza
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Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
Done.  (Short album!)  I found it to be pleasant enough, but nothing particularly special.  Don't hear any out of tune singing, in any case.  Certainly not 1 star, though.  I'd give it 3/5 max.   Probably will not be buying it, but if I did own it I'm sure I'd listen to it now and then.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts about the voice. Do get to know it better when the opportunity comes. I would probably give it a three too.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 17 2012 at 22:44
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Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:


First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer. 



But that kind of contradicts your review where you have noted that he doesn't really sing out of tune or anything like that.  Maybe if you feel he has such problems and don't want to be harsh, you could leave out that sentence altogether.  By the way, on which specific song did you find major intonation issues?  I just heard Sospesi Nell and I don't think it is really too far off.  I do agree that at least based on this song, I didn't find anything particularly distinct about his style other than that he sings in Italian instead of English (obviously).   A singer like Ian Anderson has a distinct swing, a distinct style of phrasing, I couldn't make out something like that from what I have heard (which again can get hard when it is a language I don't understand). 

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Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

I discovered lots of new things from this LE ORME's "Felona e Sorona" review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=854027.

Brilliant sentence: 
" the vocalist's voice is quite plain, average and indistinguishable from the voice of every other Italian singer.

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Even if he's not a good singer, as you say, Aldo Tagliapietra has one of the most recognizable voices in rock. So reading that "the vocalist's voice is ... indistinguishable from the voice of every other Italian singer" is funny. Please name another similar singer if I'm wrong.
 
I'm no specialist in progressive rock frim italy, but apart from the singer of Banco I fail to ddistinguish almost every singer from any given band. I sometimes can't even separate who's who in PFM! Also, tuning in at any time in RAI could prove my point almost instantly, because there's always a variety show with someone singing and they also manage to sound mostly the same to my ears. Still, that, I presume, must be because of the way they sing, how they portray their voices in that particular country.
Quote
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

And this one really opened my eyes: 
"The Italian prog scene never struck me as being quite special and even though it has some very powerful and notable exceptions, such as Premiata Forneria Marconi, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Locanda delle Fate, among others, most of the scene has nothing interesting to present at all."

And I've always defended that the RPI as a genre does not exists. It has not a a distinguished sound, it is just how people do progressive rock in Italy due to their common cultural background. It completely illogical, really. it would be like putting every other band from every other country that does not sound like the English in separate genres.

Is RPI a separate genre or not is another question. But Italian bands have strong roots based on rich national traditions, including folk and classical music. The classical influence is definitely the strongest in Italy. Yes, prog of almost every country has its peculiaritis, but no other country has as many prog bands as Italy. Are you serious? Doesn't England or West Germany rings any bells? I don't even like German prog in general, but West Germany has put out far more bands than Italy in any period of time in almost every genre of rock or metal that exists (maybe Italy wins on power/neoclassical metal, but even so I would liek to see some proofs) and England is definitively the biggest producer of progressive rock bands. We even have three genres that are almost exclusively for English bands: The Canterbury Scene, Neo Prog and Prog Folk (what, like it or not, is definitively driven by how English folk music sounds; otherwise the band probably will be placed in another genre). And many of these Italian bands are completely different, but the common point is Italian language and national traditions. Thus the sentence "most of the scene has nothing interesting to present at all" is pretty shallow. As I mentioned before, I'm no expert in progressive rock from Italy, so I may not have enough in-depth knowlege to actually point out how many bandds exactly sound the same way. However, with the little knowlege I have I must say that, excepting PFM and Banco, all other bands sound much like one another; in the case of newer bands, like Il Tempio Delle Cassidere and Il Bacio Della Medusa, the genericness becomes so intense it starts to be ludicrouns how people manages to think they are masterpieces, on the same level as consecrated albums as Storia di Minuto and Darwin!. And even among albums I enjoy, such as Zarathustra and Loccanda's debut,  they do sound quite generic. I berlieve that the only band that managed to get somewhat innovative after the 1970's and that is listed there are the Three Monks, and even so they should be listed as Symphonic Prog because they have absolutely nothing in common with all those bands.
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

First of all, Le Orme's vocalist is NOT a good singer. I've even considered to put in the review the fact that he, at times, he sings out of tune in that album, but I though that was way too harsh, so I chose to just point out how indistinguishably the same he is from every other singer.
Well, I like his innocent high-pitched voce.

yeah I like it alot too, but it's personal taste.  I like Frank Bornemann's (ELOY) voice, so what do I know? 

Frank's problem is merely his thick accent, he does NOT sing out of tune. On Le Orme's case, there are no problems with singing in foreign languages, but the guy still cannot hit many notes. The issues ad different.

I understand.  Maybe a better comparison is David Cousins (Strawbs) who is often accused of singing out of tune, yet to me he may be the best vocalist ever to come out of England.  Anyway, nobody would say he sound's like all the other English singers!  Regarding Aldo being out of tune, I can't say as I have noticed it, since many prog singers seem out of tune, whether deliberately or otherwise.  I think musicians call this dissonance or something of the sort.  Perhaps le ORME's melodies are so beautiful that they felt they might benefit from the introduction of a certain degree of dissonance to keep them from being to sweet. Heart

I'm not meaning to diss your review at all...I think it's refreshing to get another view on an album that so many regard as a masterpiece, and to at least acknowledge the points you are making and the reality that, inasmuch as they represent your opinion, they are valid.    This is the reviews discussion thread, not the reviews reporting thread, and I am treating it as such.
 
I know. Maybe, for being a fan of a band that get so much heat (Dream Theater), I sometimes think everybody else is similarly used to see their favorite artists critisized. And, you know what, you are right, sometimes they do have the reason; that why I would have to agree with you if you mentioned James LaBrie instead of David Cousins, because I still haven't listened to the Strawbs. Plan to do so in the future, though.
 
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
Done.  (Short album!)  I found it to be pleasant enough, but nothing particularly special.  Don't hear any out of tune singing, in any case.  Certainly not 1 star, though.  I'd give it 3/5 max.   Probably will not be buying it, but if I did own it I'm sure I'd listen to it now and then.
 
Meaning that it is not a good album. if 3/5 is tour maximum rating, than the "normal" would be 2/5; besides, you don't even find it worth buying. In other words, I'm glad you helped me prove my point Mr. cat.
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Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
Done.  (Short album!)  I found it to be pleasant enough, but nothing particularly special.  Don't hear any out of tune singing, in any case.  Certainly not 1 star, though.  I'd give it 3/5 max.   Probably will not be buying it, but if I did own it I'm sure I'd listen to it now and then.
 
Meaning that it is not a good album. if 3/5 is tour maximum rating, than the "normal" would be 2/5; besides, you don't even find it worth buying. In other words, I'm glad you helped me prove my point Mr. cat.

It was just a first listen, dude! Stop estimating everything at face value. Prog takes time, and you know it.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - November 18 2012 at 01:07
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Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

OK, I am just beginning listening to Felona e Sorona now for the first time (first Le Orme for that matter).  I will let you know the answer!  Tongue
Done.  (Short album!)  I found it to be pleasant enough, but nothing particularly special.  Don't hear any out of tune singing, in any case.  Certainly not 1 star, though.  I'd give it 3/5 max.   Probably will not be buying it, but if I did own it I'm sure I'd listen to it now and then.
 
Meaning that it is not a good album. if 3/5 is tour maximum rating, than the "normal" would be 2/5; besides, you don't even find it worth buying. In other words, I'm glad you helped me prove my point Mr. cat.

It was just a first listen, dude! Stop estimating everything at face value. Prog takes time, and you know it.

lolwhat? are you implying I didn't take enough time to value and weight the record? Stern Smile Oh man, this keeps getting better and better. Ermm
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Points: 32995 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2012 at 09:20
Since when is 3/5 not a good album?
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