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tpietrzak 
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 06 2012
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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 Posted: September 06 2012 at 21:31 |
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Oh.. and that doesn't mean you can't have favorites... it just means you should have a wider spectrum (great album by Cobham) of things in your collection.
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jokrs2
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Rains alot!
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: September 12 2012 at 17:46 |
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Yes, and I bowled a 244 against Randy Hansen when his wife worked with mine. He could play circles around anything Wilson's ever done if he was just goofing around. Alan White(Yes Drummer) lives next to an ex soccer team mate of mine. I have owned everything from Tangerine Dream (Zeit & Alpha Centauri), before they went over to Virgin Records with the likes of Gong, Hatfield & The North, Mike Oldfield to some of the newer stuff like Arena, Spocks Beard. Being a synth player and musician since the age of 5 (46 yrs), I can honestly tell you that the Flower Kings and Stolt write music that is much more complex and Porcupine Tree probably couldn't play it for more than just 1 reason(Tomas Bodin). The Flower Kings are in a sub grouping anyway. Lyrics like Genesis (Suppers Ready) and The Flower Kings lyrics would put them in with the likes of Spocks Beard, Neal Morse as Christian Prog. imho
Porcupine's music had no uplifting feeling for me, and just seemed the same song after song leaving "this" listener depressed. I gave away PT's "latest live DVD" because it sucked.
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King Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 16 2010
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 952
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 05:33 |
 jokrs2 wrote:
Porcupine's music had no uplifting feeling for me, and just seemed the same song after song leaving "this" listener depressed. I gave away PT's "latest live DVD" because it sucked. |
In oder not to get depressed I sold my PT CDs on ebay years ago, and got more than I paid for originally. Made me feel good again! 
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Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1029
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 18:18 |
Wow. PT's latest DVD 'sucked'? I guess mileage really does vary. I thought it was the best live show I've ever heard from them.
Why anyone would sell PT albums, I'd never know.
But then, I've never listened to the Flower Kings, and don't find them progressive or innovative in the least.
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27956
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Posted: September 20 2012 at 00:55 |
Kashmir75 wrote:
Wow. PT's latest DVD 'sucked'? I guess mileage really does vary. I thought it was the best live show I've ever heard from them.
Why anyone would sell PT albums, I'd never know.
But then, I've never listened to the Flower Kings, and don't find them progressive or innovative in the least. |
I've never got rid of anything deliberately just in case I might like them later in life and that includes my collection of Flower Kings CD's and DVD's. (but if anyone wants to take them off my hands for more than I paid for them then... )
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: September 20 2012 at 16:50 |
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though [have TFK changed]? |
That addition of Reingold was one element that pushed them in a jazzier direction. They also became more lush in their instrumentation. Take a listen to Unfold the Future vs. the earlier stuff. This was right after Transatlantic too and I think you can hear influence from them. It's not a drastic change or anything like KC going from Red to Discipline (of course, those are several years apart, and at a time when attitudes in the mainstream of music were changing a lot), but it's still evident.
I think it's harder to say how something like f**king Tool has changed. They got a bit slicker and more drawn out. Why are they "more progressive" exactly? It's just metal. Wilson probably had the dumb, subconscious line of thought that "it's depressing music and thus more in line with the zeitgeist of the 90's/00's". I know he's changed his views over the last few years though so that's cool, and I like his music. I've always considered PT and TFK to be legit prog, whereas Tool and TMV are the sort of "alternative" pseudo prog, and not actually any more original.
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CryoftheCarrots
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 29 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 674
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Posted: September 20 2012 at 19:43 |
16 pages of a totally pointless argument over who is righter than who !!!!!
The interview in question is f**king years old !!! Who gives a toss what they thought back then. Both artists whom I love and respect unconditionally have moved on. Steven and Roine BOTH play on Steve Hacketts new Genesis Revisited 2 cd. Move on people.
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"There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about"
MJK
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27956
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Posted: September 21 2012 at 01:10 |
King Crimson776 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though [have TFK changed]? |
That addition of Reingold was one element that pushed them in a jazzier direction. They also became more lush in their instrumentation. Take a listen to Unfold the Future vs. the earlier stuff. This was right after Transatlantic too and I think you can hear influence from them. It's not a drastic change or anything like KC going from Red to Discipline (of course, those are several years apart, and at a time when attitudes in the mainstream of music were changing a lot), but it's still evident.
I think it's harder to say how something like f**king Tool has changed. They got a bit slicker and more drawn out. Why are they "more progressive" exactly? It's just metal. Wilson probably had the dumb, subconscious line of thought that "it's depressing music and thus more in line with the zeitgeist of the 90's/00's". I know he's changed his views over the last few years though so that's cool, and I like his music. I've always considered PT and TFK to be legit prog, whereas Tool and TMV are the sort of "alternative" pseudo prog, and not actually any more original. |
Thanks for that. I actually think TMV are the epitomy of a modern prog band (heavy and very fast at times) although as a bit of an oldie I find them almost unlistenable 
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riversyd
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 01 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 23
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Posted: September 22 2012 at 16:36 |
CryoftheCarrots wrote:
16 pages of a totally pointless argument over who is righter than who !!!!!
The interview in question is f**king years old !!! Who gives a toss what they thought back then. Both artists whom I love and respect unconditionally have moved on. Steven and Roine BOTH play on Steve Hacketts new Genesis Revisited 2 cd. Move on people. |
The sanest message on the thread....
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Daggor
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 26 2011
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:14 |
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Maybe I only thought of it because I am a raving lunatic of a Bigelf fanboy, but did anyone else catch the irony in SW's statement given the fact that the last band to tour with Porcupine Tree is completely and apologetically derivative of 70s prog and 70s rock?
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zeqexes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1238
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:09 |
CryoftheCarrots wrote:
16 pages of a totally pointless argument over who is righter than who !!!!!
The interview in question is f**king years old !!! Who gives a toss what they thought back then. Both artists whom I love and respect unconditionally have moved on. Steven and Roine BOTH play on Steve Hacketts new Genesis Revisited 2 cd. Move on people. |
You're so right. It's so pointless arguing, they're both very different. And even if they were similar, arguing would still be stupid because all it would do is make people angry. Both Wilson and Stolt are allowed to have their own opinion, and their opinion is just as 'right' as anyone's.
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Roj
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 25 2012 at 03:05 |
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though? |
I'm sure you said you have their albums. I know you have or have heard the new one as I have seen your curmudgeonly review of it. You don't need anybody to tell you how they have evolved. You are a symphonic prog fan and you have a pair of ears. Listen to The Flower King, then Flower Power, then Unfold The Future then the new one. If you can't hear the changes in this band throughout their career, well........I'll rest my case. This is from a fan who feels they were at their very best in those early years. A largely instrumental band with a heavy leaning towards jamming, however a lot of ambient music too as well as blues and psychedelia. Garden of Dreams is unlike anything I have ever heard.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27956
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Posted: September 26 2012 at 01:49 |
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though? |
I'm sure you said you have their albums. I know you have or have heard the new one as I have seen your curmudgeonly review of it. You don't need anybody to tell you how they have evolved. You are a symphonic prog fan and you have a pair of ears. Listen to The Flower King, then Flower Power, then Unfold The Future then the new one. If you can't hear the changes in this band throughout their career, well........I'll rest my case.
This is from a fan who feels they were at their very best in those early years. A largely instrumental band with a heavy leaning towards jamming, however a lot of ambient music too as well as blues and psychedelia. Garden of Dreams is unlike anything I have ever heard. |
I'm interested in the fans views though. I'm not a fan of the TFK (although I have 5 albums inc Unfold The Future) and find it actually quite hard to listen to their music. However I am also having a struggle with Anglagard's latest which feels like an inferior version of what they've done before and also dislike Glass Hammers 'If' more than Banks Of Eden although I really like that band a lot and would count myself a fan.
I like music to make sense. Composition is very important to me and I find the majority of TFK not particularly interesting compositionally and there is precious little else to draw me in. The latest album has some excellent drumming and is well produced but not much else grabs me. However I may change my view in the future , who knows? As is said earlier I intend to keep the albums , they havn't been consigned to a draw or put out of sight. I may still play them but generally there are loads of other things I would rather listen to ,whether symphonic or not (prog wise).
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Roj
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 26 2012 at 02:59 |
richardh wrote:
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though? |
I'm sure you said you have their albums. I know you have or have heard the new one as I have seen your curmudgeonly review of it. You don't need anybody to tell you how they have evolved. You are a symphonic prog fan and you have a pair of ears. Listen to The Flower King, then Flower Power, then Unfold The Future then the new one. If you can't hear the changes in this band throughout their career, well........I'll rest my case.
This is from a fan who feels they were at their very best in those early years. A largely instrumental band with a heavy leaning towards jamming, however a lot of ambient music too as well as blues and psychedelia. Garden of Dreams is unlike anything I have ever heard. |
I'm interested in the fans views though. I'm not a fan of the TFK (although I have 5 albums inc Unfold The Future) and find it actually quite hard to listen to their music. However I am also having a struggle with Anglagard's latest which feels like an inferior version of what they've done before and also dislike Glass Hammers 'If' more than Banks Of Eden although I really like that band a lot and would count myself a fan.
I like music to make sense. Composition is very important to me and I find the majority of TFK not particularly interesting compositionally and there is precious little else to draw me in. The latest album has some excellent drumming and is well produced but not much else grabs me. However I may change my view in the future , who knows? As is said earlier I intend to keep the albums , they havn't been consigned to a draw or put out of sight. I may still play them but generally there are loads of other things I would rather listen to ,whether symphonic or not (prog wise). |
That's fair comment. Definitely keep them. There's a friend of mine who listened to Flower Power a couple of times, hated it and threw it in the drawer! Now a couple of years down the line he is a TFK fanboy  . I am a fan of Glass Hammer too. Whilst I like "If" and still listen to it occasionally, with Davison sounding so like Anderson I can't help but feel they're a bit too close to the bone. I don't have Cor Cordium yet, and I know there's a new one out soon. I'll get them both but expect more of If, although I'll keep an open mind. I'd much rather a return to the days of Lex Rex if I'm honest. That is a great album.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27956
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Posted: September 27 2012 at 01:39 |
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though? |
I'm sure you said you have their albums. I know you have or have heard the new one as I have seen your curmudgeonly review of it. You don't need anybody to tell you how they have evolved. You are a symphonic prog fan and you have a pair of ears. Listen to The Flower King, then Flower Power, then Unfold The Future then the new one. If you can't hear the changes in this band throughout their career, well........I'll rest my case.
This is from a fan who feels they were at their very best in those early years. A largely instrumental band with a heavy leaning towards jamming, however a lot of ambient music too as well as blues and psychedelia. Garden of Dreams is unlike anything I have ever heard. |
I'm interested in the fans views though. I'm not a fan of the TFK (although I have 5 albums inc Unfold The Future) and find it actually quite hard to listen to their music. However I am also having a struggle with Anglagard's latest which feels like an inferior version of what they've done before and also dislike Glass Hammers 'If' more than Banks Of Eden although I really like that band a lot and would count myself a fan.
I like music to make sense. Composition is very important to me and I find the majority of TFK not particularly interesting compositionally and there is precious little else to draw me in. The latest album has some excellent drumming and is well produced but not much else grabs me. However I may change my view in the future , who knows? As is said earlier I intend to keep the albums , they havn't been consigned to a draw or put out of sight. I may still play them but generally there are loads of other things I would rather listen to ,whether symphonic or not (prog wise). |
That's fair comment. Definitely keep them. There's a friend of mine who listened to Flower Power a couple of times, hated it and threw it in the drawer! Now a couple of years down the line he is a TFK fanboy .
I am a fan of Glass Hammer too. Whilst I like "If" and still listen to it occasionally, with Davison sounding so like Anderson I can't help but feel they're a bit too close to the bone. I don't have Cor Cordium yet, and I know there's a new one out soon. I'll get them both but expect more of If, although I'll keep an open mind. I'd much rather a return to the days of Lex Rex if I'm honest. That is a great album. |
Yep Lex Rex is great although my favourite is The Inconsolable Secret. They took a bit of chance with the second disc and I think it paid off (although many would disagree which is fair enough , one man's meat etc)
Edited by richardh - September 27 2012 at 01:41
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: October 01 2012 at 13:46 |
Any Colour You Like wrote:
Wait, what?
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Exactly. Still, lol.
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Clepsydra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 494
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Posted: October 04 2012 at 21:16 |
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I prefer TFK much more than the drab PT.........
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theadolescentprogger
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 23 2012
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 88
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Posted: October 07 2012 at 13:04 |
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Well, having heard very little Porcupine Tree, I'm not really qualified to say, but having recently heard "The Flower King", I'm giving this one to Roine. But I wouldn't really call Radiohead Prog, just well composed Alt. Rock.
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: October 17 2012 at 13:41 |
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
Roj M30 wrote:
richardh wrote:
^ in what way though? |
I'm sure you said you have their albums. I know you have or have heard the new one as I have seen your curmudgeonly review of it. You don't need anybody to tell you how they have evolved. You are a symphonic prog fan and you have a pair of ears. Listen to The Flower King, then Flower Power, then Unfold The Future then the new one. If you can't hear the changes in this band throughout their career, well........I'll rest my case.
This is from a fan who feels they were at their very best in those early years. A largely instrumental band with a heavy leaning towards jamming, however a lot of ambient music too as well as blues and psychedelia. Garden of Dreams is unlike anything I have ever heard. |
I'm interested in the fans views though. I'm not a fan of the TFK (although I have 5 albums inc Unfold The Future) and find it actually quite hard to listen to their music. However I am also having a struggle with Anglagard's latest which feels like an inferior version of what they've done before and also dislike Glass Hammers 'If' more than Banks Of Eden although I really like that band a lot and would count myself a fan.
I like music to make sense. Composition is very important to me and I find the majority of TFK not particularly interesting compositionally and there is precious little else to draw me in. The latest album has some excellent drumming and is well produced but not much else grabs me. However I may change my view in the future , who knows? As is said earlier I intend to keep the albums , they havn't been consigned to a draw or put out of sight. I may still play them but generally there are loads of other things I would rather listen to ,whether symphonic or not (prog wise). |
That's fair comment. Definitely keep them. There's a friend of mine who listened to Flower Power a couple of times, hated it and threw it in the drawer! Now a couple of years down the line he is a TFK fanboy .
I am a fan of Glass Hammer too. Whilst I like "If" and still listen to it occasionally, with Davison sounding so like Anderson I can't help but feel they're a bit too close to the bone. I don't have Cor Cordium yet, and I know there's a new one out soon. I'll get them both but expect more of If, although I'll keep an open mind. I'd much rather a return to the days of Lex Rex if I'm honest. That is a great album. |
Eh? That was me that was - and I didn't actualy "Hate" Flower Power when I first heard it - But I bought "Flower Power" in one of my famous prog Offensives (in otherwords - just earned a lot of money) - and I purchased FP along with about 25-30 other CD's - all from different bands - and I was dissapointed with a few of them - and listened to FP disc 1 - with my ears expecting something I didn't get.....I only liked the early instrumental bit of GOD - then it semed to meander..so this CD got placed in the collection and sort of forgotten - then I got SWA - and the title track blew me away - so then I tuned in - and listened to GOD again and it started to grow....and grow.....FK were like Yes - I didn't like at first but then I suddenly "got it"......And back to the whole jist of this thresd - Me and Roj stayed at Steve's houe in Hemel Hemstead - when he was just starting out......he's an excellent guitarist but he can't touch Stolte - for playing nor composition.....
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: October 17 2012 at 13:45 |
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And if Roj says I'm a fan-boy then I am going to throw my wifes knickers at Stolte during the next tour of GB.......
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Steven Wilson Vs. Roine Stolt
