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Grape_Jam View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 04 2012 at 05:42
In your opinion, which artists were the most innovative ones, that were daring and tried things that were new at the time?
 
Here are some:
 
The Kinks (in 1964 they were making a protopunk album, which had a song that would go on to influence a whole genre. Let's not forget, they made a raga rock song before The Beatles)
The Red Crayola (broke all barriers for music at that time. Where would noise rock be without these guys?)
Sandy Bull (one of the most important artists in bringing eastern influences to the West. Debut album released in 1963. If that isn't daring, then I don't know what is.)
The Velvet Underground (let's just say most of the bands formed since VU released their debut owe something to them.)
Bob Dylan (almost the music "scenes" of the time were mainly because of this one man)
Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band (before punk ever existed, this band was playing music that could be described as "post-punk".)
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention (their influence is spread across MANY genres. So many that I can't really summarize it all in a sentence)
Chuck Berry (the most revolutionary rock musician of the '50s. Imagine what rock music would have been without him.)
 
There are many others too, but I don't really have time to list them all.


Edited by Grape_Jam - July 04 2012 at 05:43
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 08:11
Bach
What?
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Points: 14169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 17:22
I'd say either John Cage or King Crimson.
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Points: 28772 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 17:24
Hmm, if we had any way of knowing who the first person was to realize the rhythmic/melodic patterns/possibilities, I'd say him/her.
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Points: 11967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 17:49
Originally posted by Grape_Jam Grape_Jam wrote:

In your opinion, which artists were the most innovative ones, that were daring and tried things that were new at the time?
 
Here are some:
 
The Kinks (in 1964 they were making a protopunk album, which had a song that would go on to influence a whole genre. Let's not forget, they made a raga rock song before The Beatles)
The Red Crayola (broke all barriers for music at that time. Where would noise rock be without these guys?)
Sandy Bull (one of the most important artists in bringing eastern influences to the West. Debut album released in 1963. If that isn't daring, then I don't know what is.)
The Velvet Underground (let's just say most of the bands formed since VU released their debut owe something to them.)
Bob Dylan (almost the music "scenes" of the time were mainly because of this one man)
Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band (before punk ever existed, this band was playing music that could be described as "post-punk".)
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention (their influence is spread across MANY genres. So many that I can't really summarize it all in a sentence)
Chuck Berry (the most revolutionary rock musician of the '50s. Imagine what rock music would have been without him.)
 
There are many others too, but I don't really have time to list them all.

You confuse innovation with influence. And besides the history of music didn't start Chuck Berry. 
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Matthew T View Drop Down
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Points: 5291 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 18:14
Louis Armstrong ( Pops or Satchmo)
 
Louis havin' a fag or one of his funnies Smoke
 
Matt

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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 20:11
Perhaps Karlheinz Stockhausen.
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Points: 288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 23:58
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Grape_Jam Grape_Jam wrote:

In your opinion, which artists were the most innovative ones, that were daring and tried things that were new at the time?
 
Here are some:
 
The Kinks (in 1964 they were making a protopunk album, which had a song that would go on to influence a whole genre. Let's not forget, they made a raga rock song before The Beatles)
The Red Crayola (broke all barriers for music at that time. Where would noise rock be without these guys?)
Sandy Bull (one of the most important artists in bringing eastern influences to the West. Debut album released in 1963. If that isn't daring, then I don't know what is.)
The Velvet Underground (let's just say most of the bands formed since VU released their debut owe something to them.)
Bob Dylan (almost the music "scenes" of the time were mainly because of this one man)
Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band (before punk ever existed, this band was playing music that could be described as "post-punk".)
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention (their influence is spread across MANY genres. So many that I can't really summarize it all in a sentence)
Chuck Berry (the most revolutionary rock musician of the '50s. Imagine what rock music would have been without him.)
 
There are many others too, but I don't really have time to list them all.

You confuse innovation with influence. And besides the history of music didn't start Chuck Berry. 
Why not? Most innovative bands are also influential. For example, The Mothers were making new and daring stuff for their time, and their contributions to music overall influenced others too. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
 
And I know the history of music didn't start with Chuck Berry. I never said that. A few of my favorite artists came and made great music even earlier than the 50s. But I was just saying that Chuck Berry was revolutionary and daring, and perfected rock and roll early on. I don't get what you're trying to say here either.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 00:04
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Bach
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Points: 65308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 00:05
yeah Louis A. for sure, and Raymond Scott, George Martin, Brian Wilson, Jimi Hendrix, Satie, Schoenberg, Charles Ives
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Points: 34055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 03:21
Procol Harum ( A Whiter Shade of Pale is the frist song (that i know of) that mixes western classical music with british psychadelic rock, it is often forgotten and often taken for granted how ahead of its time that lone song is in music, or some would say this is how Bach through Procol Harum have influenced music, baroque rock)

Roy Orbison (by creating a sub-genere of rock all of his own, by be very classical founded and often quite small but complex song structure that have no relation to other rock at the time)
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 03:43
Beethoven reinvented himself several times as a composer (early - middle - late Beethoven). In the beginning of his career Beethoven made compositions like Mozart. At the end of his life he made his late string quartets which are something else completely, quite difficult stuff.

In jazz I'd say Miles Davis was an enormous innovator.
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 03:58
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

... it is often forgotten and often taken for granted how ahead of its time that lone song is in music ...

I guess it depends on how you define "forgotten" or "overlooked". I don't understand how it's taken for granted, though.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11967 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 04:15
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Grape_Jam Grape_Jam wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

[QUOTE=Grape_Jam]In your opinion, which artists were the most innovative ones, that were daring and tried things that were new at the time?
 
Here are some:
 
The Kinks (in 1964 they were making a protopunk album, which had a song that would go on to influence a whole genre. Let's not forget, they made a raga rock song before The Beatles)
The Red Crayola (broke all barriers for music at that time. Where would noise rock be without these guys?)
Sandy Bull (one of the most important artists in bringing eastern influences to the West. Debut album released in 1963. If that isn't daring, then I don't know what is.)
The Velvet Underground (let's just say most of the bands formed since VU released their debut owe something to them.)
Bob Dylan (almost the music "scenes" of the time were mainly because of this one man)
Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band (before punk ever existed, this band was playing music that could be described as "post-punk".)
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention (their influence is spread across MANY genres. So many that I can't really summarize it all in a sentence)
Chuck Berry (the most revolutionary rock musician of the '50s. Imagine what rock music would have been without him.)
 
There are many others too, but I don't really have time to list them all.

You confuse innovation with influence. And besides the history of music didn't start Chuck Berry. 
Why not? Most innovative bands are also influential. For example, The Mothers were making new and daring stuff for their time, and their contributions to music overall influenced others too. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
 
And I know the history of music didn't start with Chuck Berry. I never said that. A few of my favorite artists came and made great music even earlier than the 50s. But I was just saying that Chuck Berry was revolutionary and daring, and perfected rock and roll early on. I don't get what you're trying to say here either.

When you ask us which is the Most innovative artists of all time and the oldest example you can think of is a rock 'n' roller, you come across as someone that haven't the slightest clue. What about all the music from the renaissance and up to 1955? Could you not find anything more innovating there than a band coming up with a protopunk riff? I love Kinks but apart from making the heaviest riff on one track in 1964, how on earth do they qualify as musically innovative? Yes I know See My Friends, and its twangy, easternsounding riff, and that it was released a few months earlier than Norwegian Wood.  But everyting they ever did with rock was already there. Yusef Lateef... hell even Duke Ellington + many other jazzartists had been using eastern instruments and scales for years, not to mention the exotica composers. 

Bob Dylan, probably the least interesting out of all modern canonised artists I can think of when it comes to musical innovation (of course he's still a good lyricist and solid songwriter). But yes sadly, he's extremely influential. 

Bach, Raymond Scott, Stockhausen is already mentioned. And what about Monteverdi, Schoenberg, Beethoven, Morricone, John Coltrane, Miles Davis or perhaps Kraftwerk and Can? They all brought a new approach to music, apart from providing some basic riffs to practice on for every teenager with a guitar in a garage. 

Imagine what rock music would sound like without Chuck Berry? I don't know: The same? Better? More interesting?
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Points: 1781 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2012 at 03:01
Don't know whether they were the MOST innovative but they sure were innovative..........

Bert Jansch and John Renbourne

Album examples:

It Don't Bother Me (1965) or

Bert and John (1966)
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2012 at 17:09
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Bach
 
and later Chopin and Debussy.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 12768 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2012 at 17:54
Who inventes, or was the first person, to use an electric guitar? That must have been extremely innovative.
Who made the first Rock and Roll album?

And well, my knowledge about first ones isn't very good at all, so this comes more as a question than a suggestion, but what about Mike Oldfield? I thought Tubular Bells must have been something quiet unheard of at the time... though I may be wrong.
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2012 at 12:18
Monteverdi.
Schoenberg.
Pierre Schaeffer.
John Cage.
CPicard.
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