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darkshade View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 15:30
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 15:39
Pop means you can put in a pop up toaster...

Pop star = shellack a cow turd and convince enough people it's a plop of gold.  Tongue

If you want to find the equivalent of pop music in the pre recorded days what you want is folk music, except it wasn't commercialized.


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 02 2012 at 15:42
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 15:44
In past centuries actually some kinds of folk music were in the place of modern pop.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 15:47
^But of course this is a very general comparison. Pop music is a phenomenon of sound recordig era.
This night wounds time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 15:57
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:

In past centuries actually some kinds of folk music were in the place of modern pop.

I thought that was the point I was making. 

Music for the masses had to be fairly simple so that actual people could play it, otherwise how could people experience it?  The advent of recorded music changed things.  It could be shared without people actually physically making it in person.


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 02 2012 at 15:59
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 16:03
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Just curious, who amongst our long time prog fans hasn't gone through a period where you looked down on pop after becoming a prog fan?

I never looked down on pop, but I have always been picky about the pop I listened to anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 16:58
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Just curious, who amongst our long time prog fans hasn't gone through a period where you looked down on pop after becoming a prog fan?

There is some pop that I look down upon and some that I simply revere. I can't speak in too general a fashion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:00
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.

There are many reasons this music was created. Most was heard by the few. Not so popular.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:05
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.

There are many reasons this music was created. Most was heard by the few. Not so popular.


I think the main reason the music was created in the first place was for the Catholic Church, so in fact, most people heard this music at church mass. As it became more of an art form with Beethoven, it was performed in halls, but only the rich could afford to see it, but it was still the popular form of music/entertainment. Even the poor talked it up, because of how popular guys like Beethoven (for example) were.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:07
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.

There are many reasons this music was created. Most was heard by the few. Not so popular.


I think the main reason the music was created in the first place was for the Catholic Church, so in fact, most people heard this music at church mass. As it became more of an art form with Beethoven, it was performed in halls, but only the rich could afford to see it, but it was still the popular form of music/entertainment. Even the poor talked it up, because of how popular guys like Beethoven (for example) were.

I disagree. Popular music were the songs sung in pubs and bars.....on streets....travelling wotsits. No one goes to church to hear popular music. Unless it's gospel.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:09
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.

There are many reasons this music was created. Most was heard by the few. Not so popular.


I think the main reason the music was created in the first place was for the Catholic Church, so in fact, most people heard this music at church mass. As it became more of an art form with Beethoven, it was performed in halls, but only the rich could afford to see it, but it was still the popular form of music/entertainment. Even the poor talked it up, because of how popular guys like Beethoven (for example) were.

I disagree. Popular music were the songs sung in pubs and bars.....on streets....travelling wotsits. No one goes to church to hear popular music. Unless it's gospel.LOL


And Baptist church haha

I don't know. It's really hard to speculate what was truly popular back then. I mean, folk songs and other songs went down the generations, but what was popular in one part of the world, was unknown in another not too far away.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:13
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Technically, most 70s prog is pop music pushed to it's limits, with added eclecticism. This could be why some people don't like modern prog, and some have said it lacks that 'hook'.
Technically everything under the sun is pop that is not Classical or Jazz or serioius experimental composers


Well, was classical (Romantic, Classical, etc) not the pop music of it's day?


No, not really. Plus the word pop had  not been created.


Doesn't mean it wasn't "pop"ular.

There are many reasons this music was created. Most was heard by the few. Not so popular.


I think the main reason the music was created in the first place was for the Catholic Church, so in fact, most people heard this music at church mass. As it became more of an art form with Beethoven, it was performed in halls, but only the rich could afford to see it, but it was still the popular form of music/entertainment. Even the poor talked it up, because of how popular guys like Beethoven (for example) were.

I disagree. Popular music were the songs sung in pubs and bars.....on streets....travelling wotsits. No one goes to church to hear popular music. Unless it's gospel.LOL


And Baptist church haha

I don't know. It's really hard to speculate what was truly popular back then. I mean, folk songs and other songs went down the generations, but what was popular in one part of the world, was unknown in another not too far away.

True but they would have there own local songs. But songs did travel because minstrels moved from place to place. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 17:14
^Wow this pyramid needs to stop.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2012 at 22:40
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Just curious, who amongst our long time prog fans hasn't gone through a period where you looked down on pop after becoming a prog fan?


Pop music is what got me into MUSIC, so, no, I can never look down on pop. I don't want to become that person twenty years later either.  I will not condemn the format merely because of some artists I do not like.  It was talented pop artists who made the initiation easy for me while at the same time introducing me to concepts I would recognize in prog, classical or jazz and thereby expand my musical horizons.  Good pop has a very important role to play in music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2012 at 02:40
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Anybody ever heard about this story:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/virtual-japanese-pop-star-sells-concerts-makes-more-204736890.html
 
 
At least she seems to play with a real band (although you never know, it could well be playback too).
 
I really don't know but I would say that still most pop-star hit songs are written by a human composer / arranger, but it won't be long that even the music, or at least several of the melodical lines, harmonies etc will also be computer-generated. A computer can compose hundreds of melodies in a wink of an eye and then you just chose which one seems to have most chances of success and do the final arrangements and tidy it up.
Computer sound libraries, VSTi etc sound already very convincing and the music can be fully "played" and recorded by a computer and if it's done well many people will not tell the difference from the same music played by human musicians (still depending quite a lot on the type of instrument and music, for example electric rock guitar playing is still notoriously difficult to emulate, but it will come the day that even complex instruments like electric guitars will sound convincing enough).
 
Like it or not we better get ready to accept it, a good deal of music will be computer-generated and computer-interpreted. It will just be a different kind of music, like what computer-generated images are to human drawing or painting.
 
But there will always be music composed and played by humans (I hope, although this does not necessarily mean that it will always be better than computer-generated one).


Edited by Gerinski - June 03 2012 at 02:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2012 at 02:53

I HOPE popular music gets all super computer produced and all our pop stars are just empty shells... wait the stars are already shells. All we need is a nice little computer program that analyzes emotions and how to create each feeling with music. Yay.

 
Because then real musicians will HAVE to force themselves to push their musical abilities. Do I look down on pop music? Not at all. I respect the hell out of someone that makes music that other people enjoy. I can't do that very well. I can only make music that I enjoy. But I could not respect them as a friend unless I knew personally that they were doing their best to push their music and their abilities.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2012 at 06:07

How to Create a Pop Star

to even the colours and edge out the startkness,


USE CRAYONS

http://www.freshpromotions.com.au/products/cheap-crayons1.jpg




Edited by aginor - June 03 2012 at 06:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2012 at 23:50
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

  I don't know of a genius working in music right now, whether in the mainstream or otherwise.  

His name is Toby Driver, you should check him out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2012 at 04:13
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If creating a Pop Star was easy we'd all be doing it - to hell with artistic integrity, bring on the champagne and caviar, limos and easy action - dammit I want a big house in the country and a fleet of Italian supercars to drive to Domino's for a take away pizza - if writing a 4-minute, 4-chord wonder is that easy then let's do it now - come on guys, we've got the talent and I'm sure we can find some leggy bimbo to front the band - our 90% split between us would still be a tidy sum of cash.

Oh, but it is that easy.  The only ingredient you're missing is money.  You either need to have a whole lot of it, or know someone who does and is willing to invest it in you.  Pop stars ARE created these days from talentless bums by people who have a tidy sum of cash.  Ashley Simpson?  Read this article from someone IN the business:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-mellencamp/on-my-mind-the-state-of-t_b_177836.html
You've given up without trying, this is the internet - the point of the Walk Off The Earth video I posted is this: 115,236,716 hits ... for a little known Canadian Indie band covering this year's biggest Pop hit by an little known Australian singer/songwriter. This simple little pop song has boosted the careers of 4 separate artists (Goyte, Kimbra, Walk Off The Earth and Sarah Blackwood) without big-money backing of Svengali-like record executives and it is pretty clear that none of the artists involved are talentless bums (as you call them). Of course viral marketting is big business and I am as cynical of it as anyone else, but that does not mean that you need lots of financial backing to pull it off sucessfully - what did Rebecca Black's mother spend on "Friday"... $4,000 getting the song and video recorded and nothing on promoting it? - with our combined resourses we can record a  I-vi-IV-V pop song for nothing and promote it for nothing...
 
Simple songs with simple structures and simple chord progressions and simple pentatonic melodies are the oldest and most common form of music in the history of everything - from folk tunes to hymns, gospel to rock and roll, troubadours and minstrels, choirs and congregations - everything is built from that, incuding madrigals and plainsong, symphonies and concertos - however complex music became its origins lay in the aural tradition of passing-on simple tunes that anyone can pick up and sing. This endures because it works, and it works because of harmony - the harmonic relationship within the chord progression is mathematical, as are the overlaying pentatonic melodies - pentatonic harmonic relationships that are prevelant in every form of ethnic music on the planet regardless of the scale or key or mode of music.
 
 
I haven't paid any attention to Ashlee Simpson to have an opinion as such - I know of her of course, but never really took any notice - reading her Wikipedia profile she doesn't seem to embody the talentless pre-fabricated mold you imply she does - she has writing credit on practically every track on all three of her albums and took creative control of her last album ... actress turned singer, famous sister, pushy parents.. the deck seems to be stacked against her but evidently you know more about her than I do, though I think there are probably better examples you could have chosen.
 
Yeah, I read the Mellencamp article a few years ago - he has some good points and some erroneous ones. Not sure why he picked on Mariah Carey, again I'm sure there are far better examples.
 
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2012 at 07:07
Oh lord, Dean, you really haven't heard about Ashlee Simpson? She is THE symbol of what is wrong with the music industry today. She is the Wizard of Oz as it were! Please go google "Ashlee Simpson Debaucle". I'll sum up what happened though. First, she was on SNL and there was a flub where it was revealed that she lip syncs. No big surprise there. But that's not where the story ends, because then it was revealed that she is tone deaf:
today.msnbc.msn.com/id/6791368
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