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Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: March 31 2012 at 06:45
My fave Max Webster tracks? well Context Of the Moon is a great track, Here Among The Cats and Lily are another good one's, but my faves are Paradise Skies and The Party. Kim Mitchell solo stuff? I really like Kids In Action, Miss Demeanor and Chain Of Events from the mini album, (his first solo album). Here is a brilliant version of Max Webster's The Party with the original line- up (reunion) with Mike Tilka on bass. I think sums up just how good he really is on guitar!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3RJnmTwjck
I can't find Chain of Events on Youtube but here is Kids In Action and Miss Demeanor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtkoBxuSWBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qv7SW8k2dY
Alex mainly used his Gibson Les Paul when I first watched them. I read an interview with him he stated it took him a couple of year to get used to playing that guitar! As you said, he also later purchased a Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion. He also used a Gibson SG double neck in white finish and a 335 and a gorgeous white Gibson 355 which is the guitar I think you might be referring to? (it might look natural under lights). He later used a black Strat. I'm not sure what other songs he used an EH EM flanger on but I suspect it would have been on many tracks, it certainly sounds like one on Spirit Of Radio. I was watching the Kim Mitchell guitar lessons on that radio station last night, he has a great sense of humour as well as being an incredibly good guitarist.
Here is some footage of Max Webster from that video I have from 1980:
Christ, the band's on fire here! Watkinson and Kim, especially. Is it
just me? Or do you ever sense that Kim and Max Webster got a lot of
influence from Frank Zappa. The way Kim sings, the humorous lyrics and
musicianship of the band just reminds me of Zappa for some reason. If I
ever meet him someday, which is quite possible, I'm going ask him that.
Do you know what kind of modes and scales Kim's using on that song?
Dorian and Phrygian, I think. Watkinson's using Ionian and Mixolydian,
maybe? I might have to work on my theory .
Check out this tune Kim plays:
Really beautiful playing, I wish Kim made this into an official track on one of his albums.
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: March 31 2012 at 12:38
Although I can play quite a few things on bass and some guitar riff's etc.....I actually play by ear only, so I can't help you there. Is there a way of sending Kim an email? maybe via the radio station he's on? That is a pretty tune he has going on there. Yes I personally think he is influenced by Zappa and probably The Beatles and maybe The Kinks given his compositions.......ask him. I'm sure he'll respond.
Somebody once said to me after a gig (when I was playing in a Wishbone Ash tribute band), "hey that was great, do you do tab"? my reply was, "tab? yes I have two, I use them for hearing"!
Well, I've been taking guitar lessons for 4 years and piano for 2
years. Personally, I'm not the best at theory and I just result to tab
for guitar, as well. Let's face it, it's easier and more efficient. The
problem is, a lot of Prog is really hard to tab and thus you can't
really find that many tabs, or good tabs for bands like Yes, Genesis,
Gentle Giant, The Mahavishnu Orchestra, etc. There's obviously a bunch
of Rush and Floyd roaming around the internet. I can figure out stuff by
ear, but only if it's something more simpler like a Pearl Jam tune or a
Stones song. I suppose I could figure out Rush by ear if I really
tried. I attempted at Jacob's Ladder, about a year ago, and I got the
whole thing pretty accurately, I think. The solo and the odd timed riffs
were the trickiest of course.
If you can get Q107 over in England, definitely tune in. They have a
hilarious morning program called Derringer In The Morning. Kim's show
always has special guests like Roger Hodgson (Supertramp), Slash,
Bachman Tuner Overdrive and much more. Also, there is an all day show on
Sunday called Psychedelic Sunday. They play only songs between the
years 65-75 on that day. Yes and Genesis show up "once every blue moon". This is absolutely hilarious!
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 02 2012 at 13:50
That was funny! Also interesting is the acoustic clip. I have a 1977 Takamine acoustic which is a dead-ringer copy of a Guild acoustic just like Roger is using! except mine is a 6 string. It's actually for sale as I don't use it, here:
By the way I have just sent Kim Mitchel an email via Q107 website, I hope it reaches him. I have also got Q107 Toronto on my phone now thanks to you so I can listen to Kim's show.....nice one!
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
Posted: April 02 2012 at 14:10
I've been playing guitar for about 25 years now and every time this kind of subject comes up, I have to make a few comments.
I remember trying to dial in various favorite tones and it never really sounding like the player I was trying to emulate. Sounding like xxxx is so much more about your fingers, your pick attack, the way you clip or sustain notes than it is your rig. Obviously you have to get the basics in terms of overall kind of distortion, pickups, etc, but you're not going to dial in Alex. It's about ears and hands.
I was a massive Randy Rhoads fan and love his live tone from Tribute, which was probably somewhat altered for that record off the board tracks, I'm guessing. I was much less a fan of his studio tone.
I give Rhoads the credit from expanding the standard of hard rock beyond pentatonic ideas. I lot of his stuff seems simple now, especially for prog heads, but he's the one that made rock bigger than loud blues to some extent.
And clappies for turning down the distortion. Fizzy tone drives me crazy. And it's not what makes alot of our favorite classic tones.
Edited by Negoba - April 02 2012 at 14:20
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
That was funny! Also interesting is the acoustic clip. I have a 1977 Takamine acoustic which is a dead-ringer copy of a Guild acoustic just like Roger is using! except mine is a 6 string. It's actually for sale as I don't use it, here:
By the way I have just sent Kim Mitchel an email via Q107 website, I hope it reaches him. I have also got Q107 Toronto on my phone now thanks to you so I can listen to Kim's show.....nice one!
No problem. When did you get that guitar? It has a very nice finish. So, Takamine copied an already existing Guild model? Takamine's a pretty big guitar company, does Guild know about this? It's not like a cheap guitar brand rips off a Gibson or Fender model, they can get away with that easily. What was the question you asked Kim? (If you don't mind me asking )
I've been playing guitar for about 25 years now and every time this kind of subject comes up, I have to make a few comments.
I remember trying to dial in various favorite tones and it never really sounding like the player I was trying to emulate. Sounding like xxxx is so much more about your fingers, your pick attack, the way you clip or sustain notes than it is your rig. Obviously you have to get the basics in terms of overall kind of distortion, pickups, etc, but you're not going to dial in Alex. It's about ears and hands.
I was a massive Randy Rhoads fan and love his live tone from Tribute, which was probably somewhat altered for that record off the board tracks, I'm guessing. I was much less a fan of his studio tone.
I give Rhoads the credit from expanding the standard of hard rock beyond pentatonic ideas. I lot of his stuff seems simple now, especially for prog heads, but he's the one that made rock bigger than loud blues to some extent.
And clappies for turning down the distortion. Fizzy tone drives me crazy. And it's not what makes alot of our favorite classic tones.
I'm not a big fan of "over the top" distortion myself. Randy is a great player. Highly influential to guitarists and he contributed heavily to Metal and Hard Rock, as you said. I'm not the biggest fan of either his guitar playing or Ozzy's solo work, to be quite honest, but I acknowledge his influence and legacy. Were you referring to Randy not using that much distortion? Alex never used that much either and that's one of the things I like about his tone. I think from not using too much distortion, he managed to get all those shimmering arpeggios out of his guitar and all those big, atmospheric chords. Also, from what you said about Alex, .
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 03 2012 at 00:33
Fox On The Rocks wrote:
No problem. When did you get that guitar? It has a very nice finish. So, Takamine copied an already existing Guild model? Takamine's a pretty big guitar company, does Guild know about this? It's not like a cheap guitar brand rips off a Gibson or Fender model, they can get away with that easily. What was the question you asked Kim? (If you don't mind me asking )
Takamine made some high quality Guild rip-offs in the late 70's and other companies from Japan such as Ibanez were doing the same, ripping off the likes of Fender and Gibson. The guitars produced then are commonly known as "lawsuit" guitars although there was never an "actual" lawsuit bought against these companies, they threatened it so the copyists backed down somewhat. The model I have is a Takamine F-390S made in November 1977 and it's a pretty rare model, as they didn't produce many of them. Mine also has a pick up built in the bridge, you plug a lead in at the bottom strap button, very cunning! and then you use your amp to set the tone as the guitar has no tone controls. There is a battery hidden inside the guitar. So technically it's an electro/acoustic, but i've only used it for it's natural acoustic sound. I bought it last year from Texas USA for recording purposes, but an old mate of mine wants it and I am selling it because I simply don't play it, which is a waste. It will probably be sold at the end of this week actually. The same mate bought an old 1970's Electro Harmonix Clone Theory chorus pedal from me a couple of weeks ago, again because it wasn't getting used. At least I know they will be in safe hands, he's had a few things from me.
I asked Kim for a request actually, so keep listening!
No problem. When did you get that guitar? It has a very nice finish. So, Takamine copied an already existing Guild model? Takamine's a pretty big guitar company, does Guild know about this? It's not like a cheap guitar brand rips off a Gibson or Fender model, they can get away with that easily. What was the question you asked Kim? (If you don't mind me asking )
Takamine made some high quality Guild rip-offs in the late 70's and other companies from Japan such as Ibanez were doing the same, ripping off the likes of Fender and Gibson. The guitars produced then are commonly known as "lawsuit" guitars although there was never an "actual" lawsuit bought against these companies, they threatened it so the copyists backed down somewhat. The model I have is a Takamine F-390S made in November 1977 and it's a pretty rare model, as they didn't produce many of them. Mine also has a pick up built in the bridge, you plug a lead in at the bottom strap button, very cunning! and then you use your amp to set the tone as the guitar has no tone controls. There is a battery hidden inside the guitar. So technically it's an electro/acoustic, but i've only used it for it's natural acoustic sound. I bought it last year from Texas USA for recording purposes, but an old mate of mine wants it and I am selling it because I simply don't play it, which is a waste. It will probably be sold at the end of this week actually. The same mate bought an old 1970's Electro Harmonix Clone Theory chorus pedal from me a couple of weeks ago, again because it wasn't getting used. At least I know they will be in safe hands, he's had a few things from me.
I asked Kim for a request actually, so keep listening!
Was it something by Budgie or Wishbone Ash? I can guarantee you that they've probably never played anything by those two bands in the history of the station. That would definitely be a surprise for Kim, the Q107 crew and listeners! If they were going to play any of those two bands, it would probably be on Psychedelic Sunday, if any day. I've actually never gotten into Wishbone Ash. I've seen a famous performance of them at the BBC in 1974, I think? I don't what song it was, but I'm pretty sure it was an instrumental and the dude was rocking the bass! Any albums you could recommend? How would you describe them? Great to hear that your gear isn't going to collect dust in your basement!
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 04 2012 at 01:07
No nothing by either of them, if I tell you it will ruin the suprise! Wishbone Ash were really the first band to use twin harmony guitars. They influenced many bands such as Thin Lizzy. Argus from 1973 was a worldwide selling album and put them on the world map selling millions and a firm fave with many WA fans. Funnily enough it's not my fave. I prefer the mid/ late 70's stuff the "Laurie Wisefield" era WA's second guitarist (he became guitarist for Tina Turner after WA). My fave albums are New England and There's The Rub, although I do have a fondness for the 1st album. I like Just Testing album also and saw them on that tour. After that album original bassist Martin Turner left. I personally don't think they have been the same since. He formed his own version of WA in 2005 the same year my tribute band formed. WA are still going with just guitarist Andy Powell from the early days but the music is different to my ears. I watched them live for the first time in 1978 which was No Smoke Without Fire Tour. Here's some samples of their stuff I dunno if you will like it or not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zYCkysupUo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVunNDAz6sk&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD6OWWxt6h8 I am also partial to the track Handy from the 1st album which is a long track that features bass solo's, we used to play that live.
I suspect Kim Mitchell has heard of both WA and Budgie.
My mate says he is buying my acoustic on Friday. I am also trying to sell my bass amp and cab.
Edited by clarkpegasus4001 - April 04 2012 at 10:00
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
Posted: April 04 2012 at 09:35
I love Lifeson's tone especially during the middle classic period. He's got a big sustain, thick textured tone. His suspended chords add alot to the bigger rhythm presence.
Back in my rock band days "Limelight" was one of my favorite songs to play as a guitarist. That solo is relatively simple but so tasty.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 04 2012 at 10:01
Negoba wrote:
I love Lifeson's tone especially during the middle classic period. He's got a big sustain, thick textured tone. His suspended chords add alot to the bigger rhythm presence.
Back in my rock band days "Limelight" was one of my favorite songs to play as a guitarist. That solo is relatively simple but so tasty.
I assume they had a big impact on Iron Maiden as well, seeing as the
guys from Maiden are know for their twin guitar sound and must have
drawn influence from Wishbone Ash. I just searched up the BBC
performance I was talking about and this is it:
Jazzy drums and great, bluesy guitar work! Which bands are their biggest influences? Zeppelin must be one of them. Any Prog influences? Yes, maybe?
Edited by Fox On The Rocks - April 04 2012 at 21:09
I love Lifeson's tone especially during the middle classic period. He's got a big sustain, thick textured tone. His suspended chords add alot to the bigger rhythm presence.
Back in my rock band days "Limelight" was one of my favorite songs to play as a guitarist. That solo is relatively simple but so tasty.
One of Lerxt's best! He creates an incredible atmosphere and mood with that solo. I couldn't imagine Limelight with any other solo other than that. It perfectly fits the tone and concept of the song. What I really find interesting about Limelight, and I get this from one of Ged's interviews, is that the verses and the choruses of the song contradict moods. The verses are upbeat and display the happiness of fame, while the choruses and solo show the sadness/cons, or something along the lines of that. Guys like Petrucci and Adam Jones owe a lot to Alex for their playing styles.
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 05 2012 at 00:21
Fox On The Rocks wrote:
Negoba wrote:
I love Lifeson's tone especially during the middle classic period. He's got a big sustain, thick textured tone. His suspended chords add alot to the bigger rhythm presence.
Back in my rock band days "Limelight" was one of my favorite songs to play as a guitarist. That solo is relatively simple but so tasty.
One of Lerxt's best! He creates an incredible atmosphere and mood with that solo. I couldn't imagine Limelight with any other solo other than that. It perfectly fits the tone and concept of the song. What I really find interesting about Limelight, and I get this from one of Ged's interviews, is that the verses and the choruses of the song contradict moods. The verses are upbeat and display the happiness of fame, while the choruses and solo show the sadness/cons, or something along the lines of that. Guys like Petrucci and Adam Jones owe a lot to Alex for their playing styles.
Yeah Rush do that a lot, night and shade in their songs, slow, then up tempo. Another of my fave songs by them which has that pattern, and a song i've always had a soft spot for is Lakeside Park. Up tempo verse, slow tempo chorus, and mellow bridge.
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 05 2012 at 00:42
Fox On The Rocks wrote:
I assume they had a big impact on Iron Maiden as well, seeing as the
guys from Maiden are know for their twin guitar sound and must have
drawn influence from Wishbone Ash. I just searched up the BBC
performance I was talking about and this is it:
Jazzy drums and great, bluesy guitar work! Which bands are their biggest influences? Zeppelin must be one of them. Any Prog influences? Yes, maybe?
Iron Maiden were influenced by Wishbone Ash alright, but they were more heavily influenced by Judas Priest and Budgie. Iron Maiden and Judas Priest both supported Budgie back in the day believe it or not! Priest used to support Budgie in the mid 70's, Maiden sometime later. Both bands went massive, Budgie? well that's another story!
The track on Youtube is Vas Dis which was an unusual one for Wishbone Ash because they didn't write it themselves like they did with just about everything else. It is the opening track from the second album Pilgrimage. I really like that one, because i love the jazz feel and it's different I guess. I did learn it on bass but our band never played it live, only jammed it not long before we split up. Martin Turner is using a black Rickenbacker which got broke on an aircraft, so he started calling them "girl's basses" but it didn't stop him asking to borrow mine when he re-made Argus (Argus Through The Looking Glass) with his band Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash did it? He has a modified black Rickenbacker 4000 now with an added "toaster" neck pick up, girls bass indeed! ha! I'll be seeing Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash live in a few days actually.
Edited by clarkpegasus4001 - April 05 2012 at 10:38
Lakeside Park is a great tune. It gets played on Q a lot. If you are
referring to the ending of the song as the bridge (which I'm pretty sure
it is), it's one the most beautiful things that Alex has created. Those
suspended chords, add 9ths and arpeggios are classic, indisputable
Lifeson riffs. It leaves such a warm, happy, but also a bit melancholic
mood - I guess to show the nostalgia within the lyrics. Classic Lifeson
solo, as well. That's actually sort of ironic. The fact that those two bands were opening for Budgie, but in a couple years would begin to sell out stadiums and become Metal gods. Gee, poor Budgie. So, you've met Martin Turner and he asked you if he could use your Bass for a remaster? That's unbelievable! How did you guys come into contact with each other? Mutual friends? Was he at one of your shows? Girl's basses! Let's give that title to Gibson basses instead! Have a great time at the show.
Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 635
Posted: April 06 2012 at 01:01
Fox On The Rocks wrote:
So, you've met Martin Turner and he asked you if he could use your Bass for a remaster? That's unbelievable! How did you guys come into contact with each other? Mutual friends? Was he at one of your shows?
What happened was, our Wishbone Ash tribute band called Phoenix Rising
formed in 2005 the same year Martin started his version of Wishbone Ash.
They did a "warm up" gig in November 2005 at a small club in Measham,
Derbyshire (not too far from where I live) so our band went along to
watch them, and they were excellent, we were blown away to be honest. We
got talking to the band after the gig. I got on really well with the
(now ex-drummer) Rob Hewins and we became good friends after that. We,
of course, mentioned that we had set up a tribute band etc.......
One
afternoon I got a call from someone saying it was Martin Turner and
could he speak to me, I thought it was some sort of joke at first as you
would. So I asked how he got my number and he got it from Rob, so it
really was him! He said he was in the recording studio's in Milton
Keynes (not too far from London) and he wanted to re-record Argus with
his new band and call it Argus Through The Looking Glass. He said to me
"I hear you have got an old Rickenbacker 4001?" He said he needed one to
recreate the sound he got at the time of the original Argus recording
back in 1972, so he asked if could he borrow mine.
Not a problem. So I met up with (now ex-guitarist) Keith Buck and he
took it and bought it back a few days later. Martin then rang me a week
or so later to ask if he could borrow it again because there was a
recording "blip" on the track "Blowin' Free" so he borrowed it again for
a couple of days. Except for the intro part on the opening track
"Time Was" which is like a couple of harmonic notes, the rest of the
album is my bass. That's why there is a thanks to me (Tony Clark) on the
inner sleeve notes, there is also a thanks to me on one of the two live
albums the band also did. I became friends with the band, but mainly
Rob and current guitarist Ray Hatfield in particular. I've watched the
band over a dozen times or more, but not since Feb 2010. I've watched
Rob and Ray in other projects, solo gigs etc.......as well, and Ray was
even kind enough to come around to my place and put some guitar solo's
on a project I started doing.
After we watched them in 2005, our
band played our first ever gig just 2 months later Jan 2006, Rob and
Ray turned up! we were gobsmacked that two such wonderful musicians
would even bother to watch us, but they did. I hadn't been in a band for
25 years , as if i wasn't nervous enough!
They came to see us again some time after. At another gig, Keith Buck
and his girlfriend came to watch us. Unfortunately Martin lives the
other side of the country so he never did get to see us. Our band split
up after a couple of years, but i'd rather not say why on an open forum.
Edited by clarkpegasus4001 - April 06 2012 at 19:07
That's just phenomenal! You are so lucky Tony. That project you were referring to, are you still working on it or is it something of the past? Also, I read somewhere that John Wetton was a member of Wishbone Ash for sometime.
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Alex Lifeson Distortion
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Do you know what kind of modes and scales Kim's using on that song?
Dorian and Phrygian, I think. Watkinson's using Ionian and Mixolydian,
maybe? I might have to work on my theory .
Also interesting is the acoustic clip. I have a 1977 Takamine acoustic which is a dead-ringer copy of a Guild acoustic just like Roger is using! except mine is a 6 string. It's actually for sale as I don't use it, here:
clarkpegasus4001 wrote:
)
. 
One of Lerxt's best! He creates an incredible atmosphere and mood with that solo. I couldn't imagine Limelight with any other solo other than that. It perfectly fits the tone and concept of the song. What I really find interesting about Limelight, and I get this from one of Ged's interviews, is that the verses and the choruses of the song contradict moods. The verses are upbeat and display the happiness of fame, while the choruses and solo show the sadness/cons, or something along the lines of that. Guys like Petrucci and Adam Jones owe a lot to Alex for their playing styles.
Priest used to support Budgie in the mid 70's, Maiden sometime later. Both bands went massive, Budgie? well that's another story!
but it didn't stop him asking to borrow mine when he re-made Argus (Argus Through The Looking Glass) with his band Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash did it? 
Have a great time at the show.