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Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
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Points: 2549
Posted: April 01 2012 at 22:49
Zombywoof wrote:
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Zombywoof wrote:
Its interesting to see what everyone has to say on this subject. I still don't get why everyone comes back to The Beatles. To me, they are a rather overhyped pop group and have very little to do with prog. Or perhaps I'm listening to the wrong Beatles material.
What Beatles material are you listening to?
I have "Abbey Road" and a best of, both on vinyl and I don't get anything out of either.
Well, that's their highest-rated album on here. I don't know, try Rubber Soul, Sgt. Peppers, the White Album...I've only actually heard one full album (Yellow Submarine) so I'm probably not the guy to ask. Personally, I understand why people think they're overrated but I still think that their influence is undeniable. Whether or not you like them, they still pioneered experimental rock music.
Joined: November 26 2009
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Points: 1217
Posted: April 01 2012 at 22:54
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Zombywoof wrote:
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
Zombywoof wrote:
Its interesting to see what everyone has to say on this subject. I still don't get why everyone comes back to The Beatles. To me, they are a rather overhyped pop group and have very little to do with prog. Or perhaps I'm listening to the wrong Beatles material.
What Beatles material are you listening to?
I have "Abbey Road" and a best of, both on vinyl and I don't get anything out of either.
Well, that's their highest-rated album on here. I don't know, try Rubber Soul, Sgt. Peppers, the White Album...I've only actually heard one full album (Yellow Submarine) so I'm probably not the guy to ask. Personally, I understand why people think they're overrated but I still think that their influence is undeniable. Whether or not you like them, they still pioneered experimental rock music.
I think The Beatles had great tunes that were often brought to life when other folks covered them. Have you ever heard Zappa's rendition of "I Am the Walrus"? Or Jeff Beck's take on "A Day in the Life"? Much more interesting than the originals, in my not-so-humble opinion.
Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
Joined: December 14 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 344
Posted: April 01 2012 at 23:35
Between The Buried and Me and The Dillinger Escape Plan(yeah, I know Calculating was in 99, but you count KC as 70s despite being in 69) count as influential 00s bands
Edited by iamathousandapples - April 02 2012 at 00:07
Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 514
Posted: April 02 2012 at 01:22
The influence of The Beatles lies not so directly in the music they made (they don't sound like later prog bands), but rather in their exploratory work and attitude. There were a few things that they did, that weren't usual at their time, i.e.
- mixing together straight rock, music hall (Honey Pie, Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite), classical (Eleanor Rigby)
- making use of every available and/or conceivable trick of the studio technology of the 60's
- pursuing true contemporary art music of the time (Revolution 9)
- leading the way to thematic rock albums
- making compositions with several different movements (A Day in the Life, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Abbey Road medley)
- giving form to psychedelic music (along with a few Californian bands)
Others may come up with more, unfortunately I don't have the time to think of more right now. As I said, The Beatles don't sound like later prog, but ask any big name of the 70's, who in turn are seen as big prog influences, and they'll say the main inspiration were The Beatles.
Having listened a lot to the Smile Sessions recently, it's really sad that Brian Wilson couldn't finish the album right after Sgt. Pepper, because there was a fantastically fruitful "fight" going on between The Beatles and The Beach Boys, as Wilson, McCartney and Sir George Martin have stated.
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Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
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Points: 15585
Posted: April 02 2012 at 03:13
maani wrote:
Influential....where? And FROM where? For example, there are non-English European prog bands who had quite a bit of influence on later groups. (PFM comes to mind.) And if we are talking influence ON non-English European bands, then Gentle Giant would have to be pretty close to the top of the list (along with Genesis, Yes, ELP and Floyd).
Actually, Gentle Giant are not "English" either. Two of their members were born in Scotland, and one in Wales. "British" would be a better term.
In musical terms, I've always felt over the years that Gentle Giant's place in history has been vastly over-stated (on this site at least). They were a band who enjoyed very limited success, and who at the time prog was in its heyday were very much bit part players.
Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 514
Posted: April 02 2012 at 04:31
Easy Livin wrote:
In musical terms, I've always felt over the years that Gentle Giant's place in history has been vastly over-stated (on this site at least). They were a band who enjoyed very limited success, and who at the time prog was in its heyday were very much bit part players.
Obviously GG weren't a big hit in Britain, where there was a lot of more approachable prog rock available on the market, but they had a relatively good following on the continent, and when you listen to a few Italian bands you can quickly spot the similarities. And just listen to et cetera's eponymous album, and you can add those Quebecoises to the list of those who were inspired by them.
But obviously Genesis has been the most influential prog giant of all time, because they've inspired several generations of bands.
Joined: February 13 2004
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Posted: April 02 2012 at 12:54
maani wrote:
Influential....where? And FROM where? For example, there are non-English European prog bands who had quite a bit of influence on later groups. (PFM comes to mind.) And if we are talking influence ON non-English European bands, then Gentle Giant would have to be pretty close to the top of the list (along with Genesis, Yes, ELP and Floyd).
But it sounds like we are being U.S.-centric here, so...
I would question the "influence" of King Crimson: they were certainly among the progenitors of prog, and there are a few prog bands who exhibit some influence from them. (Mars Volta is among the most obvious.) But I would not say that their OVERALL influence was very large. On the other hand, Rush probably influenced more neo-prog and especially prog-metal bands than almost anyone (as well as quite a few non-prog bands!). (Though some of the most influential neo-prog bands - Marillion, Porcupine Tree, IQ, Spock's Beard et al - were influenced less by Rush than by Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, Floyd, ELP, Moody Blues et al.)
Ultimately, it is difficult to trace influence back "clearly" with any certainty in order to establish a "hierarchy" of influence, since there was quite a bit of "cross-influence" going on vis-a-vis the seminal prog bands (mid-60s to early 70s), and the supposed influence of later prog bands is itself based on the bands that influenced THEM.
However, it is clear that the Beatles, while not prog themselves, began almost all of the "experimentation" that led to prog, and influenced almost every seminal prog band to one degree or another. (Floyd and Moody Blues are the two most direct, but Genesis, Yes, and even Gentle Giant show traces. Interestingly, Crimson seems to have "sprung full-grown from the head of Zeus," with little if any direct Beatle influence.)
BTW, I'm surprised no one mentioned Zappa. True, no one sounds exactly like him. But perhaps second only to the Beatles, his influence can be heard pretty broadly throughout prog.
Peace.
Peace man ! Where have you been hiding? I'm suprised that no one has mentioned The Mahavishnu Orchestra. Although a jazz rock hybrid Youcan't tell me that cats like Zappa weren't influenced by albums like Inner Mounting Flame and Birds Of Fire. Listen to how Zappa's ( and other guitar players ) playing changed after they heard these firebreathing frankensteins back in '72-73. Never mind guitar players everybody started playing in insane time signatures and tempos.
And wouldn't Marillion be a bit more influential than Pop Genesis, seeing Script For a A Jester's Tear is the In the Court of the Crimson King of Neo-Prog.
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
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Points: 1474
Posted: April 02 2012 at 23:47
60's/70's The Nice, Pink Floyd, Moody Blues, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, VDGG, Magma, Camel, Caravan, Gong, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Nektar, Procol Harum, PFM, Renaissance and probably a bunch of others as well. SOme more than others of course. Any big or even moderately well known band is going to have some kind of influence on the newer bands.
80's Saga, Marillion, IQ, Peter Gabriel(he was very popular in the eighties), Kate Bush, Rush. Seriously there aren't that many from the eighties unfortunately.
Yes, ELP and Genesis because of the widespread popularity they acheived. King Crimson and Gentle Giant for their innovation that influenced other musicians. Tool, Dream Theatre and Porcupine Tree continue to influence the current generation of young musicians.
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The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick
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Zombywoof wrote:
) so I'm probably not the guy to ask. Personally, I understand why people think they're overrated but I still think that their influence is undeniable. Whether or not you like them, they still pioneered experimental rock music.
