Losing interest in prog |
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soundslikeorange
Forum Newbie Joined: March 31 2012 Status: Offline Points: 20 |
Topic: Losing interest in prog Posted: April 01 2012 at 09:52 |
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The way I see it, it's just music. I don't listen to the music I used to listen to when I was in middle school too often at all... my interests have changed as I have changed. |
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Dean Watson
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Rosseau Status: Offline Points: 167 |
Posted: March 31 2012 at 08:06 | |
I try not to categorize genres, if I like it, I like it. If not, then I don't listen.
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Find me at:
http://deanwatson.bandcamp.com/ www.soundcloud.com/dean-watson http://www.cdbaby.com/Search/RGVhbiBXYXRzb24%3d/0 |
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: March 31 2012 at 03:29 | |
Jazz is all about harmony and Mianly (would you believ playing in 4/4 just so it's relativley easy to moveback into a verse! The harmony is expressing music often outside the normal octave range. Just listen to Joe Pass for master lessons on guitar harmony all by himself. The compex worlks of Ornette Coleman and Charlie Mingues,standards from the Great American Songbook are rich and driupping with harmonic depth(even if you don't want to hear Moon River ever again!) Jazz Harmony can be amazingly complex (which was why Miles wanted to move in a 1 chord pedal tone at times, much easier to express his ideas (Think Bitches Brew to Agharta, Pangea and the Dark Magus albums). Limited harmony might be say, rapor noise experimentalists (not being snobby - just saying that standard msuc harmony is not apparent in all musc but absolutely full of jazz.). oh yeah, as FZ fans. We'll tell you the same Wazoo... |
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DamoXt7942
Special Collaborator Joined: October 15 2008 Location: Okayama, Japan Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 08:07 | |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14069 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 06:33 | |
Welcome to the site.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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GeorgetteBanks
Forum Newbie How To Edit A Spam Joined: March 29 2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 06:11 | |
everything gets old eventually.
just give it time don't force it, it'll come back to you ;) |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: March 17 2012 at 01:30 | |
Clever point; I concur.
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ProgEpics
Forum Groupie Joined: September 05 2010 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 92 |
Posted: March 17 2012 at 00:55 | |
The problem is most prog bands try to sound like others so you never hear anything new, and a lot of prog bands are afraid to use good melody writing at the risk of people think they are sell outs. Also progressive music can be any style that does something that isn't common. I know a lot of people don't consider the beach boys to be progressive but pet sounds was a huge breakthrough in making progressive music in the mid 60s. Brian wilson managed to combine creepy melancholic jazzy chords with pop music while using every instrument you can imagine. To me that's what progressive is, doing something new or combining elements from a lot of styles.
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Come on you target for faraway laughter,
Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine! |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: March 09 2012 at 18:30 | |
19 pages and counting, funny how attractive indifference can be
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: March 09 2012 at 18:20 | |
Ain't nothing wrong with that. That means you are just maturing. I think that if you are listening to something that you enjoy, be it classical or jazz or ambient and it's not Yes or KC, it's still prog to some extent.
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xentagz
Forum Groupie Joined: October 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 80 |
Posted: March 06 2012 at 03:59 | |
This is prog in a new way, like blackfield. I think its still prog but new |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 05:44 | |
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What?
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 05:28 | |
Erm....how does my post equate with musicians create music pandering to what the audience want to hear as somewhat trite
Confused (Brisbane) - I'm agreeing with you (I thought) |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 04:57 | |
It's what musicians do - they take whatever sounds that are available to them and create music - failure to exploit that is not the fault of the audience, but of the musicians. I find the idea that musicians create music pandering to what the audience want to hear as somewhat trite - I believe most musicians create music they want to hear, whether that's Keith Emerson, Lady Gaga or Ronnie Stolt.
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What?
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TheJet
Forum Newbie Joined: March 01 2012 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 04:50 | |
I kind of agree, some of my favorite bands from the past have created the most beautiful albums. Like one of my favorites, "Yes" I don't like many of their songs from 2008+. It doesn't have the edge that they use to bring in the 1960s and 1970s. Same thing with Pavlov's Dog, while I was excited that I was still able to hear about them in the 2000s, none of their music satisfied me and hit me as well as they hit me with their 1970s content, while it was a short-lived 7 years. It had a good impact none the less.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 04:38 | |
^ Agree with this for the most part (especially the exploitation of a failed original premise e.g. Hammond spent shedloads of cash trying to get rid of the 'click' that most rock organists now swear by as the authentic B3/C3 signature)
I vaguely remember the Musicians Union in the UK attempting to have the Moog banned in the early 70's as they envisaged it would render many of their orchestral members redundant (such was the accompanying hype that the new gizmo could replicate any imaginable timbre - a false alarm as Dean points out) Digital sampling supplanted 'replication' of acoustic timbres and even then, the results are still found somewhat wanting when it comes to credible articulation - flaunt the imperfection etc |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 02 2012 at 04:20 | |
Synthesisers were intended to imitate, or synthesise (combine to form a complex product), the sounds of orchestral instruments, what we got with early synthesisers like the Moog, ARP2500 and EMS VCS-3 were poor approximations of those orchestral sounds - so poor as to be practically unrecognisable as the instruments they were trying to imitate - that was a limitation of technology and of the understanding of how sound is made, not a limitation of intention or imagination.
If this sounds unbelievable or far-fetched then consider this:
- all early organs whether they are pipe, reed, electromechanical or electronic, have stops that imitate natural and orchestral instruments - they don't sound much like the real thing to the average listener, but that's what they are, why they're there and why they have names like "tuba" and "trombone".
- the first electronic pianos tried to imitate a real piano - what you got was something that sounds a bit like a piano. - the chamberiline and mellotron copies (records) orchestral sounds directly onto their tapes.- all electronic keyboards such as those by Casio, Bontempi or Yamaha have buttons that replicate orchestral instruments.
And early synthesiser design, and all later developments, were following that same original intent of those organ stops and mellotron tapes - to replicate orchestral sounds - purposely to reduce the need for employing an 80-piece orchestra when recording and performing orchestral accompaniment to popular music.
The basic waveforms generators in a synthesiser were chosen because those waveforms are relatively simple to generate, however, the reason why there are three basic shapes (square, triangle and pulse) rather than the more obvious sinewave is because they are very close approximations in harmonic content to the three basic sections of an orchestra, (brass, string and woodwind) - a pure sinewave has no harmonic content and is an unnatural sound. The envelope generator was also designed to be able to replicate the volume envelopes of a natural (orchestral) instruments - the (A) attack of the initial hit, pluck or blow, the (D) decay of that initial hit, pluck or blow, the (S) sustain of the natural resonance of the instrument body or player's breath and finally the (R) release of the note (ADSR). The filters in the synthesiser were also chosen not only to replicate the natural filtering of the basic instrument sound created by the body size and shape (which makes a violin different to a viola or a bassoon different to a clarinet) , but to change with time in mimicry of the natural formant and resonance changing the timbre of the note as it is played-out.
Yet, those basic elements were not enough to recreate the rich complexity of real orchestral instruments, the synthesis was incomplete, hence the complexity of syntheisers grew to accomodate those limitations and to get ever closer to the sounds they were attempting to mimic. The large and complex moog on the cover of Switched On Bach is and example of the difference between what Carlos needed to recreate the baroque sounds of Brandenburg Concerto and what "rock musicians" were working with when they used the far smaller and simpler minimoog and VCS-3 back in 1968. [I would posit that Carlos deliberately chose Bach because baroque music fitted the symplistic and mechanical sounds the instrument could create rather than that of the rich complexity of classical and romantic era orchestra of say Beethoven would require...her later forays into Beethoven's repertoire used far more complex and refined synthesisers that closer resembled that era's orchestral sounds]
The synthesiser became an instrument in its own right because it failed in it's intended purpose, just as the Mellotron did and the Fender Rhodes too - the unique and instantly recognisable sound of a Rhodes became part of the musician's palette rather than a poor imitaion of concert grand piano it was trying to replicate.
That modern synths are used to replace orchestral instruments is a testament to that original design purpose and the subsequent developments of the instrument.
HOWEVER.
I do agree with the general sentiment of what Pedro is saying here, if not his basic hypothesis or his final conclusion: people are using the synthesiser in its original intended purpose (replication of orchestral sounds) rather than its serendipitous use as an instrument in its own right now, but not because the synth was ever intended to be an instrument in its own right, nor because people are scared of anything new. Edited by Dean - March 02 2012 at 04:35 |
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What?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 01 2012 at 22:41 | |
Very well said, sir!
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Posted: March 01 2012 at 08:53 | |
And my point has usually been that what we define as "progressive" in many ways is the same thing, but done within a rock context, not the "jazz" context. However, we have taken its definition and turned it into a regular pop song, and we are not able to work/define the larger pieces that also show the compositional abilities as well as in any jazz quarter the world over.
All in all, though, the "jazz" mode tends to accept and allow more improvisation on a chord or something similar, but if this is done in rock music it is automatically a solo and it is not allowed to be a part of the music or have a context that would be trying to show a "visual" with the music, as classical music has done for centuries. And I think this is what Friedel is alluding to.
The point, over all, is that modern music being electric is trying to find its own identity by not following or doing a lot of the things that the history if music has show us, which is really good ... but in the end, creating a definition for it is hard and will take years before it takes hold. If only one person/composer does it, it likely won't go anywhere, but if many others try it and do something, it should in the long run, make its point.
However, a lot of this is reliant on the players abilities and not necessarily on the "commercial" music thing, which is not creative or original, and calling many of those folks "composers" is almost a b*****dization of the term!
Harmony is the very foundation of western music. The story of modern music in the 20th century has been almost exclusively about breaking that formula ... with one bizarre result ... the more we try ... the more we end up in the same place. Ex: Synthsisers were an instrument on its own right, and all of a sudden all they are is a replacement for any instrument in the orchestra ... what a waste of such an original instrument -- but it tells you that creating new things and designs and forms, scare people for the most part ... and threatens the "harmony" of it all ... and just like here in this board ... that is not something that we enjoy, but is the foundation of the very music we love!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 11 2012 Location: Columbus&NYC Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
Posted: March 01 2012 at 07:36 | |
I love classical music a lot but I find that bands like Banco or Cervallo have as many melodies, counterpoint, and layers as classical composers do. For some reason I don't find bands like Yes, Genesis, or ELP to be equal quality as most of those guys. And for new sounding music, I always tell people Kayo Dot or Sleepytime Gorilla Museum.Edited by Smurph - March 01 2012 at 07:36 |
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