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toroddfuglesteg 
Forum Senior Member 
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
 Posted: March 28 2012 at 15:16 |
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Good luck with "because". Seems like a serious criteria for the promotion of quality.
Edited by toroddfuglesteg - March 28 2012 at 16:26 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 16:47 |
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You are correct in that this a not meritocracy since many of the Collaborators (including many of those on the 100 MPR list) are not Prog Reviewers but (dah, what's that word? oh yeah...) Collaborators... And those Collaborators achieved their promotion by one criteria and one criteria alone - their desire to collaborate and not for their skills in reviewing (such as myself for example who could not review an album to save my life, yet was more than happy to help add artists to Crossover). Most of those who have that badge acquired it by volunteering to collaborate, not by being chosen by some secret cabal for secret membership of a secret club (as you yourself are well aware since you were "promoted" into a role you had already adopted) - this notion that we are some clandestine organisation who enact some hitherto undisclosed process in choosing the chosen is fanciful and amusing. But hey, don't let me stand in the way of a
Have a typical Scottish summer chum.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 17:46 |
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Sorry about the edits, Dean. I am really threading on eggshells here and is colliding with myself - violently- in the door at least a couple of times during a post. I am indeed retired and is extreme grateful towards yourself and PA. Without PA, I would not have gotten well paid for what I am doing now. Hence the edits and floating around in the room like a bumble bee. I do not want to sound like I am not grateful towards PA. I am !! But back to topic and back to giving myself a big black eye in the process. I would claim that the collabs system was justified in 2004-06 before Google got the blogs search engines sorted out. But today where you got a substantial amount of new bands, unreviewed albums and a gigs scene collapsing around us, the whole collabs and non-collabs system in PA is more hurting the scene than promoting it. It seems like the collabs system is just there to promote the selected few's egos and not the scene we.... sorry, you, are supposed to support. And this scene need more support than ever in this day and age where even big bands is going under due to lack of support. Although keeping out the spam is an absolute necessity, the most important thing is to give the bands exposure. That means reviews, reviews, reviews and more reviews. That means doing away with collabs and the non-collabs thing where non collabs with 500 reviews or more are second class citizens and has no stake in PA. Promote all reviewers who can string together some meaningful paragraphs. Those who does not write good reviews; guide them to write good reviews. Encourage newbies to write more reviews. Find incencitives. But finding incencitives is not possible. Therefore, the collabs thing is a distraction and an anacronism in a scene which is far better served by blogs now than PA. Blogs with thousands of readers every month (yes, I can show you some figures). Not to mention by ProgSpheres and other new services whose calendars is showing 2012 and not 2005. Services that service the prog rock scene. Besides of the retro bit, a scene that is in serious trouble. When I look at PA now, I see an archive bit which is extreme good (although bettered by Wikipedia) but which also has a lot of gaps (for example; where is Christian Vander's first band ?) and a society that reminds me a lot about the Freemasons. Harmless fun, but the "prog" bit is absent. That's when I ask: What is the point ? Massaging some egos, giving the collabs an online social life or to promote prog rock ? My advice is to do away with a structure that annoys more people than it attracts people to PA and prog rock. Do away with the collabs and keep the Admins. PA only need two layers: Admins and reviewers. That would indeed support the prog rock scene again as PA once did many moons ago. Yes, and I now sports a new black eye and a new job. Both thanx to PA. .......... and get that horrendous bad software sorted out. Edit: If you think that is a conspiracy theory, you are in much more trouble than I thought and that really pains me after putting in a lot work into PA. Edited by toroddfuglesteg - March 28 2012 at 18:03 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 18:37 |
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Compliments and brickbats in the same breath don't do much for me I'm afraid, but thanks anyway. The purpose of the PA is not to promote bands or support a scene, it's an archive not a fanzine, it's operated for the fans of the music by the fans of the music not for the scene itself or those that would profit from that scene.
Its purpose is to support people who want to review, and it provides that service to those people without the hassle of creating and promoting their own Blog - and (being candid and honest here), having your own blog is not the best solution if you don't expend a proportional amount of time and effort in promoting it (I know because I've done that too) - an unread blog is a dead blog regardless of how prolific its owner is and while I'm sure you have figures for some Blogs, you don't have figures for every Blog and for every success there are a myriad of failures. Here we have traffic, we have through-put and we have the diversity of content backed-up by a support structure that offers a little bit more than one man and his blog, but I don't need to sell to the congregation here, even if the software provided is a little shaky at times, it hasn't prevented thousands of people from posting thousands of reviews... all collected in one place and not scattered throughout the intermess. ProgSpheres is good, and so are all the other sites that offer a select few the opportunity to display their talents at writing a good review, but here we allow all to display their love of the music regardless of how well they can write or express themselves - the only proviso is they must bring with them their love of the music, not the scene or their desire for self-promotion (though we are not ones to discourage that) - you want one review of an album and we'll give you five, ten, twenty, a hundred... That's the purpose, that's the gift and that's the draw.
If you have used the PA to promote bands or support the (?) scene (what scene? whose scene? or more accurately which scene?) then all well and good, but that is not our purpose so don't complain to us when it does not suit your requirements as well as it does ours. If the scene needs promotion tools then there is a niche to be filled, but we are not it, we are not here to actively promote new bands - we do it passively by virtue of being here, by virtue of providing a free platform for them to do it from (the forum), by virtue of having members such as yourself who can and do use those tools for that purpose, by virtue of actively recognising those bands when they come to our attention, and by virtue of having an audience who are willing to listen, and much more importantly, are willing to review when they have listened - but all that is a bonus and a side effect, it is not the raison d'être. New bands are important, but they are not why we are here.
Edited by Dean - March 28 2012 at 18:37 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32530 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:01 |
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The forum here has given me far more exposure than the reviews did, let me assure you. In fact, my latest album's sales were, as far as I can tell, all from our forum (or personal interactions) and not due to reviews. I don't think reviews really help a band sell albums unless it pushes them into the top 20 genre chart or top 20 of the year chart. I could be wrong, but my experience suggests this. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:13 |
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...not sorry enough it would seem
Nope - don't think that was a conspiracy theory, just an erroneous assumption of what the purpose of the PA is.
Then I do not (and did not) think your previous comments regarding Freemasonry was a conspiracy theory either - I was being snarky and sarcastic, an unfitting and undignified response I know, but there is no valid answer to such a comment, hence the conspiracy theory simile since they too are unproven and unsubstantiated ideas that grow in stature with every drop of evidence that logically refutes them. But seriously... Freemasons?!?! - are you sure we're not the Illuminati?
 But no, provide an opinion (however misguided that may be) without the unnecessary and uncalled for snipes and jibes at the people who volunteer their time here and I'll comment without sarcastic conspiracy theory retorts
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 22:44 |
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Going from PA to Freemasons was a seamless transition. The principle is the same. Some old fools playing around with secrecy and grades. As with PA; harmless fun and good business. But also a bit sad. A seamless transition, in other words. More exciting than that is it not.
Edited by toroddfuglesteg - March 28 2012 at 23:37 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 28 2012 at 23:10 |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8581 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 00:07 |
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Horizons
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 00:30 |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 01:32 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 02:35 |
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What's the beef here?
That people spam the page with short reviews? Or is it we elitists have glory and keep you plebeians down?  |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 03:02 |
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What friends? |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 04:34 |
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Knowing when to stop is an art form I have yet to master so staying true to form I shall continue...
We have vacancies in our 'secret cabal'
 for any who wish to join, the entrance criteria is (as I said) very simple: anyone who has spare time and wishes to collaborate with all the other collaborators on this site please feel free to volunteer. We cannot guarantee instant promotion into this 'oh-so-clandestine elite' because we have in the past seen people volunteer then do nothing once they have obtained that extra star. While Admins can appoint some positions, (very few in reality), it is upto the respective Team Leaders to accept those volunteers into their teams as they are the ones who have to work with them - as Admins our part in this process is the mechanics of promotion, not the selection process itself. So forgive us if a little proof of commitment is asked, such as freely volunteering to write biographies for bands that have none or helping out in some other way by providing information that can be used within the artist pages or as part of the evaluation process; and while writing reviews is not a prerequisite for admission into the Collaborator ranks, they can be used to assess the volunteer's knowledge of the subgenre they wish to help - there is little point in volunteering for the Neo team if all your reviews pan Neo prog or if you only write reviews for Zeuhl or Krautrock for example. Again, the FAQs link I posted earlier is a good guide for those who wish to volunteer and any who wish to take up this challenge please approach one of the Team Leaders or Alex (harmonium.ro) as he is the Admin who has volunteered for this role, not me.
This also goes for anyone who would like to be a Prog Reviewer - this is also not a 'secret club'
it is open to all, the guidelines are in the FAQs.thank you for your time.
dean(c)
ps: anyone who wants my job, just ask.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 04:40 |
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They would never have me in the upper ranks.  Besides you are irreplaceable.
 Edited by Snow Dog - March 29 2012 at 04:43 |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 05:37 |
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and unswayed by flattery to boot  |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 10:54 |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 11:19 |
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..and Dean's albums are superb and he is an all around brainbox and lovely chap!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 29 2012 at 18:41 |
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now I know you're taking the p
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3069 |
Posted: March 30 2012 at 00:02 |
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Busted
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toroddfuglesteg wrote:
Anyway, I see no problems with a secret club where the promotion criterias is not based on merits (an impossibility by default). It is harmless fun for men who likes secret societies and social statuses. 