Joined: January 16 2008
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Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:50
^not sure who you were referring to, I have a "neutral" position, I'm not in favour or against since I believe I'm not really well informed about the subject, one of the reasons why I made the thread.
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:45
Well, you're back to the point at trying to legislate the exact point at where you are murdering or just terminating a undeveloped life. I've just seen the attempts to do so after Roe v. Wade and in the end I think it's one issue where the mother is entitled to the benefit of the doubt and usually best to have her have to play God than someone else.
Edited by Slartibartfast - November 08 2011 at 14:46
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:41
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
People aren't asking that it be treated like murder because even those who believe in it acknowledge that it much more gray than something such as homicide.
Not everybody, but believe me, here and now (Argentina) those that are against abortion being legalized, use, among other, the argument of "Abortion = Murder".
Joined: August 11 2005
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Points: 15784
Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:05
People aren't asking that it be treated like murder because even those who believe in it acknowledge that it much more gray than something such as homicide.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:02
^ Well, if abortion was equal to murder, people should be sentenced to life in prison or worse for abortion, but they aren't - even in countries where abortion is not legal.
"Abortion in all cases" - should definitely not be legal. Like I said before, there's definitely a cut-off point as far as the duration of the pregnancy is concerned, unless you want to claim that at the point of conception the one fused cell is already a human life - which doesn't make any sense for a number of reasons, ranging from medical to philosophical to religious. My opinion is that up to this cut-off point the woman should be free to choose, and from that point on abortions should only be possible for medical reasons. And by that I don't mean concerns about getting a handicapped child or something like that - I'm talking about serious risks for the mother. A woman must not be forced to deliver a baby if it puts her life at risk.
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:48
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
I hate arriving late at parties ... anyways, here's some off the cuff comments:
- What kind of abortions are we talking about? It makes a huge difference.
Abortion in all cases, at least that's what they're suggesting now in Argentina.
- Is abortion like murder? Then why are most people who are against it not demanding that it's treated like murder by the justice system.
That's actually an argument they use: "Abortion = Murder".
- At which point does a unborn life become a human being? At the point of conception - at 150 cells - at 6 months?
My opinion: Every woman should have the right to chose to have an early term abortion (e.g. up to nine weeks into the pregnancy). More important is education about (and access to means of) birth control instead of religiously motivated crap like abstinence only education, by which the need to choose can usually be avoided in the first place.
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 5195
Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:28
I hate arriving late at parties ... anyways, here's some off the cuff comments:
- What kind of abortions are we talking about? It makes a huge difference.
- Is abortion like murder? Then why are most people who are against it not demanding that it's treated like murder by the justice system.
- At which point does a unborn life become a human being? At the point of conception - at 150 cells - at 6 months?
My opinion: Every woman should have the right to chose to have an early term abortion (e.g. up to nine weeks into the pregnancy). More important is education about (and access to means of) birth control instead of religiously motivated crap like abstinence only education, by which the need to choose can usually be avoided in the first place.
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - November 08 2011 at 12:28
Joined: August 11 2005
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Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:28
Epignosis wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
These children I have- and the one I will have, not even having met him or her- are not regrets.
Your wife is pregnant?
Yes. 13 weeks now.
Did I know about this? If so I'm sorry for forgetting. Congratulations. Hoping for boy or girl?
I may have mentioned it once or twice, but maybe not in threads you frequent. As far as gender goes, I almost don't care. My wife wants a boy. I guess I'd want a boy too only because of logistics (our son has the bigger of the two children's bedrooms) and that we already have a name chosen for him (but are not settled on a female's name). Other than that though, I don't care.
Very cool.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
These children I have- and the one I will have, not even having met him or her- are not regrets.
Your wife is pregnant?
Yes. 13 weeks now.
Did I know about this? If so I'm sorry for forgetting. Congratulations. Hoping for boy or girl?
I may have mentioned it once or twice, but maybe not in threads you frequent. As far as gender goes, I almost don't care. My wife wants a boy. I guess I'd want a boy too only because of logistics (our son has the bigger of the two children's bedrooms) and that we already have a name chosen for him (but are not settled on a female's name). Other than that though, I don't care.
Joined: May 20 2009
Location: Georgia
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Points: 220
Posted: November 08 2011 at 05:49
Atavachron wrote:
^ in other words government when it does things you agree with-- seems all sides want that
That's a pretty stupid way to take that - no offense - because as you said, it applies to anyone but anarchists.
I certainly don't want anarchy with no laws at all. I want the
government to pretty much leave me and everyone else alone, but in cases
of true crime like murder, robbery, etc. the government does and should
have a role.
The T wrote:
You don't need government to tell you not to kill. You don't because you know it's not right.
Clearly a lot of people DON'T know that it's not right because people are killed all the time.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 07 2011 at 23:34
TheMasterMofo wrote:
The T wrote:
I wouldn't ask a girl either. But if we both want it, we decide. Not government.
And if I want to go kill somebody tonight, I decide, not the government. Only there will be consequences for my actions.I hate government involvement as much as anyone, but one thing government should be involved in is people's right to life.
You don't need government to tell you not to kill. You don't because you know it's not right.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: November 07 2011 at 23:32
Epignosis wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
These children I have- and the one I will have, not even having met him or her- are not regrets.
Your wife is pregnant?
Yes. 13 weeks now.
Congratulations!
I'm very glad to read how happy you are with your children Rob. If I ever have one (or two) I expect to be able to feel the same joy. I would actually look forward for the things you mention in your great paragraph. Just not now man. Again, I don't want to get an abortion, so we protect ourselves. We are really really careful. But in the odd event that measures fail and we are surprised, I want to make my (our) own decision. Again, if it's early.
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 21:32
Slartibartfast wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Children piss on the couch and refuse to eat what is good for them and distract you from recording your next album and shriek when you are recording your next album and keep you and your spouse from marital fun and embarrass you in front of other people and are rude to strangers and spit up and cost you a fortune, and require you to get up every other minute and get sick and babble constantly and cry for no apparent reason and repeat you when you utter a profanity and expect you to think that everything in their world is more important than the rent and draw on the walls with crayons and break things and interrupt the preacher and cause you and your spouse to grow irritated with each other and not let you watch movies together and rebel when it's bath time or rebel when it's time to get out and may still not appreciate anything you ever do for them.
Basically why I don't want children. I'll print this part out and put it on our fridge, just to remind myself and my girlfriend on how blessed we are.
Yes but besides that, what have the Romans really done for us?
If the existence of humankind depended on me having a baby I would seriously consider it. No matter how irritating I find these little people that draw on walls with crayons and iterrupt grown ups with their meaningless babble all the time. But lucky for me there's too many of us, so I'm actually doing the right thing.
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Abortion: Legal or Illegal
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Equality 7-2521 wrote:
