Judas Priest for Prog Related!

Frankly, it's not going to happen

If they get in, I'm reviving the Testament thread :P

Rune2000 wrote: Plus, let's not forget that Painkiller is a concept album and an excellent one at that!

Snow Dog wrote: Rune2000 wrote: Plus, let's not forget that Painkiller is a concept album and an excellent one at that! How so? News to me and thousands of Priest fans i suspect.

Perhaps you (and your thousand Priest fans) weren't paying enough attention to the album cover, the track names and the so called The Painkiller legacy.

The Painkiller is a metal messiah sent to the world to destroy evil and rescue mankind from destruction. The album depicts the story of the Painkiller, his origin and struggles. I'm not going to go into the details regarding the storyline since most of the lyrical content is left to the listeners own interpretation. Let's just say that it ends with an epic battle where the Painkiller gets the one shot at glory and saves mankind but loses oneself by doing so. Truly epic storytelling.

AGREED!!!!

I sure won't champion them, though I could conceive saying yes based on their early material and their indirect influence (via Maiden) on Prog Metal.

But they were evaluated and rejected on that basis already so I don't see the reason to suggest them again.
And certainly not for Nostradamus, even in my most nasty moods I wouldn't ask someone to listen to that.

Judas Priest is one of the most influential metal bands and a very important stepping stone to the approach of exploring riffs inside out that Metallica popularized. It's not a question of any old band from the 70s having some tenuous connections to prog; this is THE Judas Priest and they were second only to Sabbath and DP in terms of influence on metal.  Iron Maiden is the more media made and overhyped heavy metal band of this pack; there was precious little they did that Rainbow and JP didn't already do. Speaking of which, I really don't see how Rainbow is more prog related than JP and they are already on PA.  They have what one song, Stargazer, with about as much affinity to prog as Stairway, as against which Victim of changes clearly evidences a multi-part suite within a song structure.  In terms of vocal techniques used in prog metal, Rob Halford is as much, if not more, influential than Dio and as much as the classic rock crowd may love Blackmore, Tipton-Downing were among the biggest influences on NWOBHM and 80s metal guitarwork, as such.

If you fully agree with para1, you agree that there is a solid case for JP.  I know that once a band is rejected, and especially a popular band, it is very difficult to push it again for acceptance but FWIW, I am trying to put JP's influence on metal as such in perspective because I think mentioning points like concept albums are not made only by prog rock bands misses the point. Nobody said JP ARE full blown prog and they are not prog ROCK related, they are prog METAL related. A prog METAL RELATED band is going to be metal and no more, at the end of the day. 

I stand by para2. I think popular bands do get judged harshly in such discussions. But the point that for prog related, a popular band with significant influence on prog actually has a stronger case is lost somewhere. I agree with The Miracle in a roundabout way that if the point of a category like prog related is not well understood, it's better not to have it at all because not having JP if you have Rainbow is just inconsistent. 

SouthSideoftheSky wrote: Frankly, I don't understand this attitude; "we don't need...". Well, maybe you don't need, but personally I would very much like to review the albums of Judas Priest from a Prog-perspective, for a Prog-audience, just as I have done with the albums of Queen, Black Sabbath, Rainbow, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden and many other Prog-related bands. Some of which are among my favorite bands of all time. If you don't want to listen to this band, or read any reviews of their music, no one would force you to do so. Why deny those who enjoy music on the outskirts of Prog the pleasure? The only harm it could possibly do is to some rather esoteric sense "exclusiveness" that has little to do with helping other people to find new music.

Sorry if I'm being too cynical - it's nothing personal. I really enjoy your reviews, by the way. But I think you misunderstood. I listen to and love those bands as well. I like a lot of other genres too. I don't want to deny anyone any pleasures. That's why I think we shouldn't deny prog fans the pleasure of having a site devoted "exclusively" to what is traditionally known as prog rock, as its title implies. Because no one will come to Prog Archives to research information on Judas Priest or to discover some classic heavy metal. I have no objection to reviewing them from a Prog-perspective. But that would be the only real reason to add them. Is it really worth it? You can discuss their relationship to prog on MMA or another metal site. People interested in them would probably check there first. Since can discuss connections to other genres in your PA reviews, you can do the same elsewhere. I think PA should be about finding new prog music and giving artists who need it a chance to be found. These super-popular prog-related bands are definitely in no need of promotion to any audience, so that argument has little merit.

Marty McFly wrote: ^ That's a certainly bad idea, as is the one that doesn't show them in Top 100. I will comply to most of rules here on PA, but this is complete unfairness.  I know there is more collabs that approve how is this now, but it simply doesn't feel right. After all the problems that band had to get through to even be in Prog-related, they aren't even shown in charts. My solution would be to include them in Top 100 and let the masses (us and members) speak who deserves to be in Top 100, not to act like Prog Related and Proto-Prog doesn't exist.

Sorry Marty, can't agree there.

The band didn't have any problems getting into Prog-related. Some collabs did.

This is Prog Archives so Prog Related and Proto-Prog are supplemental material here to provide the "full picture", but they're not the main focus of the site. And that's how I'd like to keep it.


Edited by The Miracle - November 04 2011 at 20:35