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Topic ClosedRobert Plant - Prog?
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Poll Question: Where does this artist fit in the Prog spectrum?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [5.00%]
2 [3.33%]
3 [5.00%]
3 [5.00%]
12 [20.00%]
37 [61.67%]
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octopus-4 View Drop Down
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Points: 14122 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 11:33
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

 
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

 

If I was him and I was reading this, I would make an account and post my own opinion. That would end the debate, surely.

What makes you believe he has not voiced his opinion here ?

Grumpy ? If you have seen how Wolves has played lately and you were a fan & director (?), you too would had been grumpy.

I don't think Mr Plant should be upset. Nobody is saying that his music is not good. Somebody says that it doesn't belong to a specific genre. I don't listen to prog only so even though I don't think he's prog I really like his blues and rock as I think most of us do.
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Points: 14122 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 11:33
btw I have voted for prog-related
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 11:48
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Planty has been included in PA. Finito guiliotine. Express your views with reviews instead. 


Jim's already addressed this - reviews are not the place to express these views per site guidelines.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 11:56
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Planty has been included in PA. Finito guiliotine. Express your views with reviews instead. 


Jim's already addressed this - reviews are not the place to express these views per site guidelines.

I have been misrepresented here. What I meant was that when an artist was included here, maybe controversally or against your own wishes, just accept it and get on with it. There is no point of having a debate after the inclusion of an artist. Review the album and write it based on the music which comes out of the speakers in your listening suite - and that only. That was what I wrote in not as precise words as above. 
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Points: 1433 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 12:06
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

 
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

 

If I was him and I was reading this, I would make an account and post my own opinion. That would end the debate, surely.

What makes you believe he has not voiced his opinion here ?

Maybe he has!

Are you Plant?


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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 12:09
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Planty has been included in PA. Finito guiliotine. Express your views with reviews instead. 


Jim's already addressed this - reviews are not the place to express these views per site guidelines.

I have been misrepresented here. What I meant was that when an artist was included here, maybe controversally or against your own wishes, just accept it and get on with it. There is no point of having a debate after the inclusion of an artist. Review the album and write it based on the music which comes out of the speakers in your listening suite - and that only. That was what I wrote in not as precise words as above. 


Fair enough, though I wouldn't shut these types of discussions down.  Just don't participate if you think it's pointless.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 12:18
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

 
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

 

If I was him and I was reading this, I would make an account and post my own opinion. That would end the debate, surely.

What makes you believe he has not voiced his opinion here ?

Maybe he has!

Are you Plant?

Nope. But I have been accused for being a plant due to being a bit dim now and then. 
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Points: 40 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 15:01
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:


 Nobody is saying that his music is not good. Somebody says that it doesn't belong to a specific genre. I don't listen to prog only so even though I don't think he's prog I really like his blues and rock as I think most of us do.


Exactly.

From my point of view, progressive rock is both a series of musical styles (of which symphonic rock and space rock are the most obvious, but not only ones) as well as a "culture" of musicians who work within the scene but don't necessarily conform to those established styles.

I don't believe that Robert Plant fits either of those categories (although his association with Frank Dunnery gives him a smidgeon of the latter category). Robert Plant simply isn't a progressive rocker (and no one at this site has the power to make him one), but that doesn't mean his music is not sophisticated or artistic. When he was added to PA, I fired up a few of my old RP albums (Pictures through Manic Nirvana) and remembered what I liked about him (and it was a lot) -- but found barely anything resembling progressive rock.
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 15:29
Personally, I'm all in favor of being inclusive as opposed to exclusive when choosing bands/musicians to be covered on this site.  Reinforcing the boundaries of "progressive rock" just doesn't feel very productive or conducive to a broad appreciation of music.  So I'm glad there's "wiggle room" for things like "proto-prog" and "crossover prog" and "prog related".  In general, I don't find it interesting in the least to participate in debates over whether something is "prog", and if so, which sub-category it belongs in.  However, the inclusiveness of this site is to be commended -- better to include something than not to include it, I say.

Of course, there are practical reasons for enforcing these boundaries, even while allowing for wiggle room.  The purpose of this site is to attract fans of progressive rock - and thus you want to limit it to things that could possibly fall into that category, or else you don't really have a progressive rock site at all, and you lose some of that Brand Identity that sets you apart.  So I do understand the need to be exclusive to a certain degree, though I see it more as a "necessary evil".

The point of all this is:  I cannot in any way, shape, or form understand how Robert Plant might occupy any of the various trails orbiting progressive rock.  But I'm glad he's in here.
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Points: 166178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 16:23
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:



The point of all this is:  I cannot in any way, shape, or form understand how Robert Plant might occupy any of the various trails orbiting progressive rock.  But I'm glad he's in here.
 
I find this a very confusing statement. This site is about progressive rock. If an artist doesn't fit one or the other they shouldn't be here. I hate to be so absoluteist about that point, I'm generally not, but clearly lines are drawn. We don't want the entire 70s here (well, maybe some of us do, but I'm certainly not in that category).
 
Of course, if I read the rest of your post correctly you seem ok with non prog rock bands being here, so perhaps that answers my own confusion about the Plant issue.
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Points: 4091 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 16:40
Is prog like porno?Smile I don't know how to describe it but I know it when I see (hear) it.LOL
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Points: 7861 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2011 at 16:56
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Is prog like porno?Smile
No, in its best it's like erotica and like masturbation in the worst cases. Smile 
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 10:15
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:


Of course, if I read the rest of your post correctly you seem ok with non prog rock bands being here, so perhaps that answers my own confusion about the Plant issue.


Yep, that's pretty much it.  I'm a fan of disorder and chaos. LOL


Edited by HolyMoly - November 04 2011 at 10:15
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 10:51
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Personally, I'm all in favor of being inclusive as opposed to exclusive when choosing bands/musicians to be covered on this site.  Reinforcing the boundaries of "progressive rock" just doesn't feel very productive or conducive to a broad appreciation of music.  So I'm glad there's "wiggle room" for things like "proto-prog" and "crossover prog" and "prog related".  In general, I don't find it interesting in the least to participate in debates over whether something is "prog", and if so, which sub-category it belongs in.  However, the inclusiveness of this site is to be commended -- better to include something than not to include it, I say.

Of course, there are practical reasons for enforcing these boundaries, even while allowing for wiggle room.  The purpose of this site is to attract fans of progressive rock - and thus you want to limit it to things that could possibly fall into that category, or else you don't really have a progressive rock site at all, and you lose some of that Brand Identity that sets you apart.  So I do understand the need to be exclusive to a certain degree, though I see it more as a "necessary evil".

The point of all this is:  I cannot in any way, shape, or form understand how Robert Plant might occupy any of the various trails orbiting progressive rock.  But I'm glad he's in here.


Respectfully, my opinion is radically different.

I believe that Prog has survived because the identity of the genre was coherent while keeping a safe distance of mainstream genres instead of becoming a hybrid without a defined esence.

Always thought that if we open the doors too much, very few people will come inside, but much more will leave the site.

I have a lot of respect for Neo Prog (I was part of the team and had to leave because it took too much time from my already tight schedule), but as a genre, they tried to simplify the sound of Symphonic adding some mainstream influences, at the end, it must be one of the most unpopular Prog Sub-genres along with a couple more.

But I respect the decision of other teams.

Iván
            
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:07
I agree entirely with the first part of your post Ivan, but I don't agree with you re neo-prog. I believe that is actually one of the more popular prog genres and one of the ones which represents true prog the best.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:39
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I agree entirely with the first part of your post Ivan, but I don't agree with you re neo-prog. I believe that is actually one of the more popular prog genres and one of the ones which represents true prog the best.

Don't misunderstand me, I love Neo Prog, I consider Pendragon and Fish Marillion two of my top ten bands even over Yes and ELP while  Magenta is a top 20..

As a fact I've been part of the Neo Team, but let's be honest, in the polls, the last 2 are always Tech Extreme Prog Metal and  Neo Prog.

For example in  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75226&PN=1&RN=3 the last one is Tech Extreme Priog Metal with 27 votes followed by Neoi Prog with 17, this is sad, but common.

But the central point is that IMO the more we dilute Prog with mainstream, the less fans we will have, mnany Prog Related bands were added with the hope of pulling more people, but the result was inverse, the members protested and some left, but very few that came for a specific band stayed.

Prog has survived as a cult genre, and cult genres create real fanatics, we've seen genres like Disco enter massively and soon vanish, but Prog has survived because the fans always return to the roots.

Iván.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 04 2011 at 15:40
            
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 16:17
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I agree entirely with the first part of your post Ivan, but I don't agree with you re neo-prog. I believe that is actually one of the more popular prog genres and one of the ones which represents true prog the best.

I don't want this thread to continue to be terribly off-topic but i have to add my opinion right here. Stern Smile

I disagree about neo-prog representing true prog the best. True prog evolves and progresses past the barriers of the genre.

...and i don't feel neo-prog expresses this, i feel it's sound is too familiar and doesn't show innovation.

I'll stop there. Tongue 
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Points: 66264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 16:22
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I agree entirely with the first part of your post Ivan, but I don't agree with you re neo-prog. I believe that is actually one of the more popular prog genres and one of the ones which represents true prog the best.

I don't want this thread to continue to be terribly off-topic but i have to add my opinion right here. Stern Smile

I disagree about neo-prog representing true prog the best. True prog evolves and progresses past the barriers of the genre.

...and i don't feel neo-prog expresses this, i feel it's sound is too familiar and doesn't show innovation.

I'll stop there. Tongue 


Believe it or not you just made the same point that Bob was making.  Neo Prog represents true prog the best because it does sound familiar to what is traditional considered prog.  What you consider to be prog sounds nothing like true prog, or more likely sounds more like true avant prog which is a different branch of prog.  Fans of Neo Prog are fans of that particular "familiar" sound that these bands are playing. 
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 16:28
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I agree entirely with the first part of your post Ivan, but I don't agree with you re neo-prog. I believe that is actually one of the more popular prog genres and one of the ones which represents true prog the best.

I don't want this thread to continue to be terribly off-topic but i have to add my opinion right here. Stern Smile

I disagree about neo-prog representing true prog the best. True prog evolves and progresses past the barriers of the genre.

...and i don't feel neo-prog expresses this, i feel it's sound is too familiar and doesn't show innovation.

I'll stop there. Tongue 


Believe it or not you just made the same point that Bob was making.  Neo Prog represents true prog the best because it does sound familiar to what is traditional considered prog.  What you consider to be prog sounds nothing like true prog, or more likely sounds more like true avant prog which is a different branch of prog.  Fans of Neo Prog are fans of that particular "familiar" sound that these bands are playing. 

I guess that makes sense.
Though i still think the bands are boring for many reasons.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2011 at 18:08
I hope I would never used Neo Prog as an example.

My only point is that if we keep melting with mainstream, we will loose the only thing that kept us alive...Being a pure genre with a defined personality.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 05 2011 at 16:30
            
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