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kingcrimsonfan 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 19 2010
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Points: 239
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 Topic: avant classical music
Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:13 |
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I have noticed avant classical artists like john cage and alvin lucier are not included on the site. i think this whole genre should be considered prog because it revolutionized expermentalism and is very complex. if anyone has the same views please discuss.
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
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Points: 8368
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:16 |
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We do have some avant classical composers on the site, like Terry Riley, but I think the argument is that it becomes tough to draw the line once you start letting them in. If Cage is okay, why not Schoenberg? If Schoenberg, why not Stravinsky? If Stravinsky, why not Debbusey? and so on.
Alvin Lucier is awesome, though.
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Padraic
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:18 |
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This site is a database for progressive rock.
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thellama73
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:21 |
 Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock.
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True, but we all know that there are tons of artists here who have nothing to do with rock. Most of the prog-electronic category, in fact.
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kingcrimsonfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 19 2010
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Points: 239
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:21 |
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock.
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Prog rock is a whole different genre its not just rock it's a different type of music that allows improv and experimentalism so these artists would be appropriate to put on the site.
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Ricochet
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:23 |
thellama73 wrote:
avant classical composers [...] like Terry Riley |
 Also, rage at your spelling of Debussy. ;) No to the cause.
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Padraic
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:26 |
kingcrimsonfan wrote:
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock.
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Prog rock is a whole different genre its not just rock it's a different type of music that allows improv and experimentalism so these artists would be appropriate to put on the site. |
No, they wouldn't. You are wrong.
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Padraic
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:28 |
thellama73 wrote:
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock.
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True, but we all know that there are tons of artists here who have nothing to do with rock. Most of the prog-electronic category, in fact.
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I don't know about "tons". Suffice it to say that the vast majority of the artists here are rock (or at the very least jazz) based. It would not do to open up the floodgates for 20th century composers, Ornette Coleman, or any quirky avant-pop outfit that catches our fancy.
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kingcrimsonfan
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:29 |
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A Person
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Joined: November 10 2008
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:37 |
kingcrimsonfan wrote:
its not just rock it's a different type of music that allows improv and experimentalism so these artists would be appropriate to put on the site. |
That doesn't change the fact that prog is primarily based in rock/pop.
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Padraic
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 09:40 |
kingcrimsonfan wrote:
Padraic wrote:
kingcrimsonfan wrote:
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock.
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Prog rock is a whole different genre its not just rock it's a different type of music that allows improv and experimentalism so these artists would be appropriate to put on the site. |
No, they wouldn't. You are wrong. |
Your denying about half of prog rock that are not directly rock including soft machine, John zorn, kraftwerk, univers zero,thinking plague, and several others so prog rock is more than rock |
All the artists* listed either have sufficient rock elements or are directly progressive rock. * I don't know Kraftwerk enough to comment. edit: you honestly think "half" the artists here cannot be considered prog rock? That's just laughable.
Edited by Padraic - October 15 2011 at 09:44
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lucas
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 10:25 |
thellama73 wrote:
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock. |
True, but we all know that there are tons of artists here who have nothing to do with rock. Most of the prog-electronic category, in fact.
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and jazz artists.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 10:41 |
lucas wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Padraic wrote:
This site is a database for progressive rock. |
True, but we all know that there are tons of artists here who have nothing to do with rock. Most of the prog-electronic category, in fact.
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and jazz artists. |
Jazz artists that were major players in the advent of progressive fusion do belong here. Although this means for some reason that we have to include the hundred or so Miles Davis albums that have nothing to do with fusion.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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lucas
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Joined: February 06 2004
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 11:52 |
^
pretty any jazz musician stuck with jazz-fusion in the late sixties/ seventies...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 13:03 |
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This guy is trolling.
/thread.
Edited by CPicard - October 15 2011 at 13:05
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Points: 36152
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 13:17 |
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I have moved this to Help us Improve this Site since you are not recommending, making a case for, and providing relevant smaples of, a particular one. There have been some other discussions on this, and I would like to see a section for modern (ones working in the second half of the 20th centurfy) non-rock experimental and infleuntial composers (for instance, musique concrete and jazz ones) that were influential to styles included in PA. For instance, I think that Stockhausen, Xenakis, and Ligetti could find a section, as well as jazzers such as Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Coltrane, and Mingus.
Edited by Logan - October 15 2011 at 13:19
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 13:22 |
Logan wrote:
I have moved this to Help us Improve this Site since you are not recommending, making a case for, and providing relevant smaples of, a particular one. There have been some other discussions on this, and I would like to see a section for modern (ones working in the second half of the 20th centurfy) non-rock experimental and infleuntial composers (for instance, musique concrete and jazz ones) that were influential to styles included in PA. For instance, I think that Stockhausen, Xenakis, and Ligetti could find a section, as well as jazzers such as Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Coltrane, and Mingus.
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 I completely agree with this. Also, Varese ad Raymond Scott should have a place, since they were electronic pioneers.
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
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Points: 6088
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 13:24 |
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There is some on here; John Zorn has done many avant-garde classical music albums. Also, the early Univers Zero albums fall into this category, in my opinion.
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ExittheLemming
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Joined: October 19 2007
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Points: 11420
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 13:54 |
Doesn't avant preceding classical look like a bit of a non sequiter (or am I being pedantic?  )
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Points: 16715
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Posted: October 15 2011 at 14:18 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Doesn't avant preceding classical look like a bit of a non sequiter (or am I being pedantic?) |
I think you are being pedantic, "classical" has meant music not made during the "classical period" for quite some time now.
kingcrimsonfan wrote:
Prog rock is a whole different genre its not just rock it's a different type of music that allows improv and experimentalism |
No it's not, both of those things existed long before prog did.
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avant classical music
