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Jörgemeister
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Joined: February 10 2008
Location: Nauticus
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 22:04 |
The sky was bluer and the grass was greener, the good people were good and the bad didnt existed yet, and the prog was awesome.
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I Could have bought a Third World country with the riches that I've spent
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TODDLER
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 09:36 |
presdoug wrote:
as a sort of F#$% up teenager, i tried street drugs, in the late seventies-early eighties period, but i was always really more into the music! more than a lot of the kids who were more into the stone i have been completely clean from all street drugs for almost 29 years, and it is the best decision i ever made! Man, music itself is the greatest high there is-i don't need anything else
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The problem was the magnificent enjoyment one can get from just a few tokes or the entire rolled up drug which enhances the sound of an album like Ummagumma. They utilized the drug force to enhance the music. This was a huge deal for music fanatics in the 70's. They just wanted to sit quietly in their chambers smoking and listening to Prog. Like a clan? I was very distant from the drug culture due to my personal morals and the development of my skill as musician. My dad was a really great jazz/classical guitarist in the 30's and 40's so I couldn't fool about with drugs. He schooled me from age 7 and then I left for the road age 18. In the 70's as I traveled the east coast musicians were for the most part universal. They were mostly 10 to 15 years older than me. All diverse in the music field stylistically perfect...and so you had to be on! I am making reference to bands I worked with who covered material from Chicago Transit Authority in the 70's ...or they covered instrumental jazz/fusion pieces and to a full house wherever they traveled. Everything you played on your instrument had to be very close to perfect or you would get a warning from the band leader or manager.
All of them had toured in the 60's and it was a real pleasure just to meet them let alone work with them. They all became bitter and had this kind of social breakdown. They were already laughing at 1975 and when the business changed for the worse in 1980...the were given orders not to play Jazz to a full house whenever they felt like it or....stop with the prog cover bands and limit the money growth in that. Let's worry about our own pockets and go with the flow which is "New Wave". So skilled musicians who had been on the scene since the 60's and all through the 70's....worked in all the N.Y. studios were now being told to play songs....(just songs in general) that are 3 to 4 minutes long and let's keep it that way or your work will be cut. The "Blackball" concept from the empire above. So musicians who toured popular circuits became foul and tried to fight for the cause. Some of them broke through like Happy the Man and by 79' I recall jazz musicians telling me it was a sign for things to change. The industry grew further and further away from promoting a musician based on his ability to be diverse in nature. People were foul.
I had many great keyboardist friends who were very Julliard and also did the jazz scene in the city..or played Vangelis and Emerson style in a original or prog cover band. When the scene changed 3 of them went the suicide path. It's so strange to know somebody for that amount of time on the road and then they die tragically because the scene was changing? And then all the great Jazz musicians in Philadelphia and N.Y. were very sour because they had been cut of their liberty to perform what they wanted to in huge venues with full house and top dollar profit. Everybody on the road in this age bracket was bitter and deeply hurt by what had been taken from them. It's like the girl in the dressing room putting her electric bass away and picking up her cello and bow. Now she has to pick up the electric bass, enter the stage and play commercial music with vast limitations. That is how every musician in that age bracket felt. It was very selective in the sense as to what you could divide from their world and yours. This is why I ended up traveling with a lot of R&B cover bands who played the early Chicago or one instrumental at least. You could no longer do the prog cover band scene and it remained selective from the agents to just book a handful of them. This is around the time when Tom Evans from Badfinger was stopping into bars and drinking. He was always with Joey Molland and they were easy to spot as they wore these funny looking hats. Then I discovered later that a few musician buddies of mine were backing that current Badfinger formation. They were on Elektra label. Then it was reported that Tom Evans tragically killed himself and it was the industry that destroyed him.
Look at what the industry did to Judy Garland. Getting her hooked on drugs when she was in her teens. I don't pat attention to what the industry is like today, but I do know that in the 70's and 80's it was tragic for a great many musicians. Someone should count the suicide rate from 79' through the 80's. I'm not joking ...there were many entertainers and musicians who blew their brains out or overdosed due to the pressures put upon them from the industry. That was a tragic scene during those years ....like right out of a movie...not even thinking as you witness it that it could be real. It was when the industry made that quality business leap into the 3 or 4 minute song. Then at a club I played in Fort Dix N.J Johnny Winter was over turning all the food trays in the dressing room and just throwing stuff around. People were wigging out! The scene was changing and the original rules set by the higher ups were no longer made available to us in order to make a good living. A good honest living where you make a thousand dollars a week performing prog covers. Some people blame it directly on the drugs. But no....not in the moronic sense. Drugs were the exit out of this life. The cut-off. So many musicians did exit that way. But I was on the road with them for decades and you can see plainly that their frustrations and doom lies within the changing of the industry. When Genesis became a hits band. But that was the gloom and doom scene up and down the east coast anywhere from late 70's and through the 80's. I worked in this 1 particular music store and Carmine Appice had a drum clinic and gave a speech on how corrupted the music industry is. I found it interesting that he would even open with a topic like this. He spoke about crime mostly. He told us about the difference between his previous experience of hope in the music business and what it developed into much later. There was a tone in his voice that expressed frustration and yet he wanted to make all the musicians in the store aware of his experiences. It was his method of reaching people who take music seriously.
Edited by TODDLER - September 13 2011 at 10:09
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14110
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 09:52 |
TODDLER wrote:
presdoug wrote:
as a sort of F#$% up teenager, i tried street drugs, in the late seventies-early eighties period, but i was always really more into the music! more than a lot of the kids who were more into the stone i have been completely clean from all street drugs for almost 29 years, and it is the best decision i ever made! Man, music itself is the greatest high there is-i don't need anything else
|
The problem was the magnificent enjoyment one can get from just a few tokes or the entire rolled up drug which enhances the sound of an album like Ummagumma. They utilized the drug force to enhance the music. This was a huge deal for music fanatics in the 70's. They just wanted to sit quietly in their chambers smoking and listening to Prog. Like a clan? I was very distant from the drug culture due to my personal morals and the development of my skill as musician. My dad was a really great jazz/classical guitarist in the 30's and 40's so I couldn't fool about with drugs. He schooled me from age 7 and then I left for the road age 18. In the 70's as I traveled the east coast musicians were for the most part universal. They were mostly 10 to 15 years older than me. All diverse in the music field stylistically perfect...and so you had to be on! I am making reference to bands I worked with who covered material from Chicago Transit Authority in the 70's ...or they covered instrumental jazz/fusion pieces and to a full house wherever they traveled. Everything you played on your instrument had to be very close to perfect or you would get a warning from the band leader or manager.
All of them had toured in the 60's and it was a real pleasure just to meet them let alone work with them. They all became bitter and had this kind of social breakdown. They were already laughing at 1975 and when the business changed for the worse in 1980...the were given orders not to play Jazz to a full house whenever they felt like it or....stop with the prog cover bands and limit the money growth in that. Let's worry about our own pockets and go with the flow which is "New Wave". So skilled musicians who had been on the scene since the 60's and all through the 70's....worked in all the N.Y. studios were now being told to play songs....(just songs in general) that are 3 to 4 minutes long and let's keep it that way or your work will be cut. The "Blackball" concept from the empire above. So musicians who toured popular circuits became foul and tried to fight for the cause. Some of them broke through like Happy the Man and by 79' I recall jazz musicians telling me it was a sign for things to change. The industry grew further and further away from promoting a musician based on his ability to be diverse in nature. People were foul.
A great many keyboardists I knew that were very Julliard and also did the jazz scene in the city..or played Vangelis and Emerson style in a original or prog cover band. When the scene changed 3 of them went the suicide path. It's so strange to know somebody for that amount of time on the road and then they die tragically because the scene was changing? And then all the great Jazz musicians in Philadelphia and N.Y. were very sour because they had been cut of their liberty to perform what they wanted to in huge venues with full house and top dollar profit. Everybody on the road in this age bracket was bitter and deeply hurt by what had been taken from them. It's like the girl in the dressing room putting her electric bass away and picking up her cello and bow. Now she has to pick up the electric bass, enter the stage and play commercial music with vast limitations. That is how every musician in that age bracket felt. It was very selective in the sense as to what you could divide from their world and yours. This is why I ended up traveling with a lot of R&B cover bands who played the early Chicago or one instrumental at least. You could no longer do the prog cover band scene and it remained selective from the agents to just book a handful of them. This is around the time when Tom Evans from Badfinger was stopping into bars and drinking. He was always with Joey Molland and they were easy to spot as they wore these funny looking hats. Then I discovered later that a few musician buddies of mine were backing that current Badfinger formation. They were on Elektra label. Then it was reported that Tom Evans tragically killed himself and it was the industry that destroyed him.
Look at what the industry did to Judy Garland. Getting her hooked on drugs when she was in her teens. I don't pat attention to what the industry is like today, but I do know that in the 70's and 80's it was tragic for a great many musicians. Someone should count the suicide rate from 79' through the 80's. I'm not joking ...there were many entertainers and musicians who blew their brains out or overdosed due to the pressures put upon them from the industry. That was a tragic scene during those years ....like right out of a movie...not even thinking as you witness it that it could be real. It was when the industry made that quality business leap into the 3 or 4 minute song. Then at a club I played in Fort Dix N.J Johnny Winter was over turning all the food trays in the dressing room and just throwing stuff around. The scene was changing and the original rules set by the higher ups were know longer made available to us in order to make a good living. A good honest living where you make a thousand dollars a week performing prog covers. Some people blame it directly on the drugs. But no....not in the moronic sense. Drugs were the exit out of this life. The cut-off. So many musicians did exit that way. But I was on the road with them for decades and you can see plainly that their frustrations and doom lies within the changing of the industry. When Genesis became a hits band. But that was the gloom and doom scene up and down the east coast anywhere from late 70's and through the 80's. I worked in this 1 particular music store and Carmine Appice did this drum clinic and gave a speech on how corrupted the music industry is. I found it interesting that he would even open with a topic like this. He spoke about crime mostly. He told us about the difference between his previous experience of hope in the music business and what it developed into much later. There was a tone in his voice that expressed frustration and yet he wanted to make all the musicians in the store aware of his experiences. It was his method of reaching people who take music seriously. |
Even if I liked smoking hashish and listening to Ummagumma (more to Atom Heart Mother) I've seen a lot of people, not only musicians, even just friends dying of overdose or later, during the 80s and 90s, of liver ills and AIDS. I was actually playing as singer-songwriter or making theathre across the Italian country. What happened in the second half of the 70s was a tragedy. All the illusions related to the "Age of Aquarius" were destroyed by the coming of the 80s, instead. This, more than the star system, has sent a lot of people to heavy drugs and premature deaths. It's not a case that punk is born in 1977 together with the "disco" explosion. My generation has caused some (little) troubles to the establishment and the establishment has created new empty models to follow.
I still listen to Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother without smoking anything and I have the same pleasure as before.
Drugs can be of help (discutible) when composing, but they aren't a good idea when performing as everything seems too good even if it isn't. And I mean light drugs.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 13:48 |
TODDLER wrote:
... But anyway....I'm too old for depression from personal experiences. It doesn't affect me with that magnitude any longer. I surpassed that emotionally charged energy crap. Now I just like to tell the stories or read the stories of others. |
Almost the same thing for me.
There is a story that needs to be told, and the image of the Woodstock generation that can only remember the sex, the drugs and some rock'n'roll is quite offensive to me ... and this is the reason why Jimi's thing in the end is so important ... or Janis Joplin going nuts and having it removed from the film and the album ... we lost sight of the real thing! ... and the incredible irony ... Jimi does it in front of trash in the film! ... it's like saying that we're not capable of understanding, appreciating, and elevating the strength, the power and the beauty of the music itself ... likewise the image of London is not any better, although a lot of the work, film and everything else from the late 60's is buried and has been dumped ... and seeing a 5 minute shot of Syd, or a 3 minute shot of Yoko's painting ... and in the end, films like "Performance", while scary in many ways, musically show a much more progressive scene that no one is capable of relating to ... at least in serious variety and meaning and importance -- because that is a serious film and then some! Look at it ... and Gil Scott Heron doing rap? ... ohhhh ... check out those lyrics too! ... but no ... it's not "progressive" ... and the importance of the work itself dies ... and is gone ... and this board is supporting that "gone-ness" with its definition of the music and lack of description, understanding and quotidian work.
This board is important to me for the same reason. It's a chance for us to bring it up and elevate it. But I'm not sure we can when the definition, the polls and the fans here are doing exactly the same thing as that whole audience out there ... too stoned to care ... and just having plain fun with it, for which Woodstock is the image.
There were a lot of us that were not stoned, that enjoyed a glass of wine, or beer, and listened to the music! And like today, there are a lot of people that are just fans ... and they are there simply to have a good time and the stories are not as important as the jive, and the trolling.
And it is massive, and excellent, to see this thread and folks showing it ... you want to know what "progressive" music was about? ... listen to these folks -- they were the ones that deserve the credit for MAKING progressive music become what it became, because without our attention and care, and appreciation, the chances of it having happened probably would have dimmed to nothing ... it's about the people ... not the notes and the style!
Edited by moshkito - September 19 2011 at 15:49
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 14:40 |
TODDLER wrote:
... The problem was the magnificent enjoyment one can get from just a few tokes or the entire rolled up drug which enhances the sound of an album like Ummagumma. They utilized the drug force to enhance the music. This was a huge deal for music fanatics in the 70's.
...
|
I used to think so until 30 years ago (that would be about 1980) when I realized that the drugs did not necessarily have anything to do with the music ... and it is rather scary to think that even PF was not aware of the drug thing with Syd, when they got onto their music ... I rather think that by the time "Ummagumma" came out that the majority of the drugs were already gone, unless it was on their own personal time ... and then you can look at King Crimson, with Robert Fripp having been one of the very first totally anti-drugs.
It was impossible toplay a lot of all that music on stage if you were that ripped, specially PF when the shows were so mechanical and computerized that no one could miss a beat.
In the end, I had already read "The Doors of Perception" and I already knew about the chairs and about Mozart. And that it was the way my mind interacted with things that made the difference. And right after Carlos Castaneda was saying the same thing, but everyone liked the drugs and the stories better and could never take on "The Art of Dreaming" ... because it had no drugs. Or as don Juan said about the drugs to Carlos ... of course you didn't need the drugs but we had to shut you up so you could see something else out there! ...
And this was the part that we forgot ...
It's weird to think that Keith has to get totally ripped to play Endless Enigma on his piano ... or that Falk U Rogner (can't believe that is a real name!) was so ripped playing those massive keyboards on Wolf City that the band never duplicated ... or that Tangerine Dream was so ripped to put together an electronic orgasm in Phaedra! ... see my point? ... it's not about the drugs ... it's about the work and the people.
TODDLER wrote:
...
Everybody on the road in this age bracket was bitter and deeply hurt by what had been taken from them. It's like the girl in the dressing room putting her electric bass away and picking up her cello and bow. Now she has to pick up the electric bass, enter the stage and play commercial music with vast limitations. That is how every musician in that age bracket felt.
...
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I think that many of us here, feel the same way about the Prog Archives board. Albeit in this thread we have the chance to say something.
I have the same similar path, but with a high level literary family. A lot of rock lyrics and works did not measure up because they said nothing new and brought nothing new to the table. Thus, for me a lot of copykat bands that simply have a sound effect on their music, is not a progressive act, even if their lyrics are above par ... which more often than not they are not. All in all, it's too much music for the masses, and nothing else but.
TODDLER wrote:
...
It was very selective in the sense as to what you could divide from their world and yours. This is why I ended up traveling with a lot of R&B cover bands who played the early Chicago or one instrumental at least.
...
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Had a couple of friends in Santa Barbara that had a band and we lived in the same house for more than a year ... and yeah ... the same thing happened ... 1980 and 1981. They all disappeared, although Tom became a singer (he was a massively good Carl Palmer style drummer that had his drums stolen at Cousins in Portland, Oregon), and is still creating music today in Spokane. Tom Payne is the name.
It's not progressive, and mostly pop, but Tom knew my album collection and heard many things, and some bits and pieces show up in his music. But in the end, Tom and his brother did not have the inner strength to stick by it and do their own thing. That is the hardest part of it all. Yes, you need a dollar, you need food ... but to quit on yourself is far worse. And in the end, this is the difference between an artist and the rest ... the artists never quit ... they don't know how to quit on themselves a whole lot.
TODDLER wrote:
...
Some people blame it directly on the drugs. But no....not in the moronic sense. Drugs were the exit out of this life. The cut-off. So many musicians did exit that way. But I was on the road with them for decades and you can see plainly that their frustrations and doom lies within the changing of the industry.
...
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Agreed, but in the end, you have to stick with yourself. You can see it on folks like Peter Hammill, or Bob Dylan, or Roy Harper ... and in the end, their lyrics and their music gets even better because of who they are ...
Again, it is the industry, but evenin 1980 and 1981 I was trying to tell Tom and Dave that they neeeded to invest in themselves and sell their own record, and not wait for someone else.
I went out, borrowed $1800 dollars from Household Finace, and outright told them that I was going to produce a record, and that it was going to cost such and such at this place in Los Angeles and I showed them the quote and paper work and all that ... and they looked at me .. you're crazy, but an hour later the big guy came out ... and said ... ok ... we decided to let you have this and blah and blah ... Guy Guden's album with his comedy ... and then we sold them individually until I got it all paid and covered. Only took 6 months to pay it off ... but in the end, you knew one very important thing ... you had the control! Tom and Dave, in my book, were waiting for someone to discover their musicianship ... and it was not going to happen.
TODDLER wrote:
...
When Genesis became a hits band. But that was the gloom and doom scene up and down the east coast anywhere from late 70's and through the 80's. I worked in this 1 particular music store and Carmine Appice had a drum clinic and gave a speech on how corrupted the music industry is.
...
|
I tend to disagree. There was, already, a lot of other music scenes the whole world over, and our problem is that we were stuck on the ones we liked and then one day they left home.
End of story ... if your ears were tuned to other scenes and other musics, when Genesis went pop, the first thing I said was ... ciao baby ... there is better music elsewhere! I don't need you!
Frustration is an individual emotion and a result of your point of view. And when that point of view is stuck in one place, that is going to happen. I was quite happy with the European scene and the Latin America scene (hello Archie Patterson) and the other scenes, which were so much more interesting than what we were used to.
In the end, we were stuck in a time warp. Plain and simple. Otherwise the word boredom and frustration are not real, and we can live just through it ... but I think that a lot of us started to see the "American Dream" go down the tubes, and not have a house, or a place for our own abode and appreciation, and then you think that you have to change your life and quit playing music in order to find that dream.
Or, as is my joke, 40 years later we look back at ourselves, and laugh that we were such kids having so much fun and the whole thing was worthless. There is no such thing as "worthless" in the experience of a human being ... and the minute you think there is, ... good ol' Aleister Crowley used to say ... you're better off dead!
Edited by moshkito - September 13 2011 at 14:40
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7265
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 17:33 |
Regarding drugs.....for me and many of my friends, the liberal use of high-quality marijuana definitely enhanced the listening experience!!
However, as far as playing & performing, I'll be the first to admit that attempting that with ANY kind of buzz (pot, booze, whatever) makes for a poor performance. John McLaughlin has written elegantly about that, and he came clean as nearly all surviving musicians must.
The times were different....we had a lot of campus unrest due to the Viet Nam war, which was tearing the US apart. I just missed the big campus demonstrations, but was old enough to be at risk for being drafted. Fortunately, the war effort wound down when I was a freshman student at college. The energy of those turbulent times probably helped to launch prog, if you read the lyrics to ITCOTCK songs like "Epitaph." Not very cheerful stuff!
I found my environmental consciousness in the early '70s, and credited many prog artists for inspiring me, including Jon Anderson. I told him this backstage & he gave me a sweet smile! Your prog idols do want to know if you have inspired them, let them know, they will appreciate it.
Peace.
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GoldenGod2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 30 2011
Location: Tacoma, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 351
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 18:47 |
I feel like I belong in the 60's and 70's...
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The future's uncertain and the end is always near. - Jim Morrison
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 18:55 |
GoldenGod2112 wrote:
I feel like I belong in the 60's and 70's... |
You really shouldn't be nostalgic for a time that was before you were born.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 13 2011 at 20:59 |
moshkito wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
... But anyway....I'm too old for depression from personal experiences. It doesn't affect me with that magnitude any longer. I surpassed that emotionally charged energy crap. Now I just like to tell the stories or read the stories of others. |
Almost the same thing for me.
There is a story that needs to be told, and the image of the Woodstock generation that can only remember the sex, the drugs and some rock'n'roll is quite offensive to me ... and this is the reason why Jimi's thing in the end is so important ... or Janis Joplin going nuts and having it removed from the film and the album ... we lost sight of the real thing! ... and the incredible irony ... Jimi does it in front of trash in the film! ... it's like saying that we're not capable of understanding, appreciating, and elevating the strength, the power and the beauty of the music itself ... likewise the image of London is not any better, although a lot of the work, film and everything else from the late 60's is buried and has been dumped ... and seeing a 5 minute shot of Syd, or a 3 minute shot of Yoko's painting ... and in the end, films like "Performance", while scary in many ways, musically show a much more progressive scene that no one is capable of relating to ... at least in serious variety and meaning and importance -- because that is a serious film and then some! Look at it ... and Gil Scott Heron doing rap? ... ohhhh ... check out those lyrics too! ... but no ... it's not "progressive" ... and the importance of the work itself dies ... and is gone ... and this board is supporting that "gone-ness" with its definition of the music and lack of description, understanding and quotidian work.
This board is important to me for the same reason. It's a chance for us to bring it up and elevate it. But I'm not sure we can when the definition, the polls and the fans here are doing exactly the same thing as that whole audience out there ... too stoned to care ... and just having plain fun with it, for which Woodstock is the image.
There were a lot of us that were not stoned, that enjoyed a glass of wine, or beer, and listened to the music! And like today, there are a lot of people that are just fans ... and they are there simply to have a good time and the stories are not as important as the jive, and the trolling.
And it is massive, and excellent, to see this thread and folks showing it ... you want to know what "progressive" music was about? ... listen to these folks -- they were the ones that deserve the credit for MAKING progressive music become what it became, because without our attention and care, and appreciation, the chances of it having happened probably would have dimmed to nothing ... it's about the people ... not the notes and the style! |
Moshkito...very nice posts. Great insight on the times we were living in. Although I was a late bloomer entering the music scene around 76' ....I was fortunate to have worked with musicians who toured in the 60's and I tend to think you are more so in their age group. I was just lucky to arrive at the tail end of things. Although I did learn a lot and was coached by older players. I gave the example of Tom Evans and not that you are a Badfinger fan but....you probably knew of them when they were fresh with their Magic Christian album or No Dice. You are probably 7 or 8 years older than me so you were old enough to drive possibly I don't know? For example I bought their albums at age 13 staying at home with mom and dad while you perhaps could have been driving around noticing their name posted on a marquee and along with many other bands as well. When I hit the scene people like Tom Evans floated about for a few years with the later version of Badfinger then committed suicide
. When I toured.... artists like Happy the Man, Nektar, Dixie Dregs and Steve Hackett on his Cured tour and Renaissance were the highest level I reached in the business. I was on the traveling circuit with them ....but they were already on their way out.... I think I was depressed for a long time and started to feel pathetic as if I was born at the wrong time for the high expectations I had on the inside. Some artists like Shuggie Otis age 15 when he did a different super session album with Al Kooper had a more direct connection to the industry through their parents before them. It was rare to enter the music scene at a young age unless you were Dino, Desi, and Billy and that was like bubblegum pop....where Shuggie had connections to Columbia records and the underground scene. So yea...I felt like I had missed the real deal. Apart from the underground prog scene in 76' ....regular straightt up rock music annoyed the crap out of me. I kept looking for people to play guitar like Peter Green and Mike Bloomfield and it just wasn't happening. Even Frampton on "Rockin' the Fillmore" had that beautiful rock guitar tone. When people like Robin Trower and many others in the mid 70's rock vain turned up that ugly distortion I knew I was in the wrong generation. Like I said before....you had Mahavishnu with the interesting tone of John McLaughlin's guitar in the mid 70's along with many others..but not in ROCK music. No more Jeremy Spencer's or the sweet tone of Mick Taylor on John Mayall's Crusade. Danny Kirwan was still playing with a real nice tone on Bare Trees and Sands of Time...but most guitar players in rock had the buzz saw sound in 76'.....like Boston, Foghat, and BTO. I couldn't relate to that and collected mostly European underground albums only and from that point on.....and giving up completely on straight up rock music forever.
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wjohnd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 16 2011
Location: Scotland, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 327
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 01:36 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
GoldenGod2112 wrote:
I feel like I belong in the 60's and 70's... |
You really shouldn't be nostalgic for a time that was before you were born. |
i dunno, Ritchie Blackmore and Candice Night seem to be making a career out of it
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 07:27 |
In the 70's I witnessed a vast quanity of musicians in society developing all the same attitudes about music. It was the late 70's fusion invasion. Mahavishnu Orchestra, Jean Luc Ponty, Return to Forever, Weather Report etc. In 78' I would have been 21 years old and other guitarists in my age group, 1 year younger,....or 3 years younger took this fusion thing to extreme heights. There wasn't much individuality to it....You know? Everyone is an individual? That never entered into it. They just wanted to get into Berklee music college so they could accomplish playing very fast like Al Dimeola or John McLaughlin. It wasn't about music ...it was about ego. William Leavitt's books were for the gradual development of dexterity in both hands and not a race with the Devil. There were too many guitar races for my taste. At a very young age I played McLaughlin's solo's with speed and accuracy because as a child I was forced by a teacher to focus on playing material slowly and sometimes screamed at to maintain an even tempo. I wasn't having wet dreams and twiddling my thumbs waiting to showboat and attempt to blow some other guitar player away.
I hated those days when every guitar player I met in my age group or younger was ego blown in the fusion realm. I mean did I miss something? What about the composition? They were in music college and couldn't care less about that aspect. The message of Birds of Fire seemed lost to Johnny fast gun in those days. When I started traveling .....at age 18....I handed a cassette recording of Birds of Fire to a guitarist age 32 and asked him to play it. It took him about 5 minutes to figure out the style of improvisiation. These types of musicians were very cool. Guitarists who were in their early 30's in 1977 and played like Johnny Smith, George Benson, or Bucky Pizzarelli. They were not about ego and they were very humble and open to what music could express to the soul.
Edited by TODDLER - September 14 2011 at 07:28
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 07:35 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
GoldenGod2112 wrote:
I feel like I belong in the 60's and 70's... |
You really shouldn't be nostalgic for a time that was before you were born. | Tell me who doesn't love what can never come back? (Robert Smith)
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TODDLER
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Posted: September 14 2011 at 08:26 |
It was hard to take. One night you would be playing Led Zeppelin or Rush....and then on Sunday you would be performing Classical guitar by candlelight for an audience in a mansion. The rockers were very insulting buying you drinks, trying to fix you up with groupies, and handing you drugs......and looking upon you as some kind of mental patient because you turned all those things down. People were very stupied and ignorant during my extensive road travel in the 70's. As far as they were concerned you were just as good as the guitarist in Kiss.....because you were up on stage for one particular night playing Led Zeppelin. If you traveled like that extensively you had to practice in the dressing room or if lucky....the Holiday Inn. It wasn't about being a rock star....just making money to push your career in music. So you are in the dressing room practicing Paganini and Bach on the classical with your back turned and 1 of these morons struts in saying...."Oh! I can tell when you are making a mistake"" I would say nothing, but think in my mind...."Of course I am making mistakes". "I am practicing and not performing for you?" For people that knew so little ...they sure pretended to know a lot. I hated that environment. That's why I escaped to the lighthouses to compose in solitude or put on the headphones and listen to Univers Zero while the pigs with their drinking habits acted out.
I just had to block it all out and focus on playing guitar. Shut up and play your guitar was the answer. If you spoke to anyone in the audience it often caused jealousy to develop in the majority of people's minds. If you could pull off "Thick as A Brick" or "Dance on a Volcano' in a prog band live.....and in America they would love you. The only problem was the offers night after night. It became quite over-done. I was married 3 times and often took my wife on the road with me. The corporation would give me new car which they had paid off or new instruments and clothes. The jerks in the audience would want your wife because it was vital for them to feel more important than you. They would buy you drinks all night long, yet screw your life up in a heartbeat. They were double standard in every aspect of the meaning. ...and all because you were standing up on a stage. I still don't get that? I had to work really hard from age 7 to 18 to become professional enough to work with original bands and prog cover. They were stupied and ignorant people who thought picking up the guitar to play was some kind of free-for-all. A joke! Like playing guitar is not hard work and instead it is good fun. It does not become good fun till long after you have worked really hard at it. What was so hard about that logic for the majority of audiences I played for to understand?
As I told you before,..the Classical audience I performed for in mansions were a Satan worshippers sect. That was very scary for me AND....although they treated me with respect....I did not trust them. As I said before...it was a mansion circuit I played for about 6 months...witnessing the same faces, same dress code, in the New England states and up state N.Y. i'M TELLING YOU FIRST HAND....You don't know what it is like until you watch the youtube interviews with Peter Banks. I'm sure he has pockets filled with stories that he does not tell. When you are a full time traveling musician...you view the world from the outside. Everyone who approaches you is on a mission and if you don't remain in your space you could be in danger.
Edited by TODDLER - September 14 2011 at 09:03
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tdfloyd
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Posted: September 15 2011 at 11:44 |
Atavachron wrote:
it was pretty much like it is now, just with better music and the constant threat of nuclear annihilation ..
it is true that many records - and a lot of other things - simply weren't available, and there was no medium by which to locate them other than going to the source
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We had the threat of nuclear annihilation in the 60's too. I remember doing "duck and cover" drills in elementary school.
As for the music, there was something to be said for going to multiple stores and finally finding that elusive album and paying for it with your meager income. You did not have that many albums and you played the hell out of it. You always remembered where you bought it and how long you searched for it. Now you can download dozens of tracks at once , the get a few plays and your on to the next new thing. Don't get me wrong, I have been exposed to music now that I never would have heard in the 70's. Each era has its merits and pitfalls.
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Fragile
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 17:39 |
Around 1969 to 1970 the World exploded into this new World of rock.In the schoolyard your class mates turned up with albums in their schoolbags.I went from Neil Diamond and Crackling Rosie to Purple ,Sabbath,Led Zep and Tull.
Zappa was then followed by Alice they were wonderous days and there was so much quality music you didn't know which way to turn.Every other day there was something new.My favourites at that time were the magnificent Uriah Heep with the truly awesome David Byron on lead vocals.
But change comes and the first time I heard The Yes Album I was gone,hooked lined and sinkered and there was no turning back.Your whole life changed with this most wonderous music.
Here in the UK we had the Alan Freeman rock show in the early 70's and he played everything from In The Court to Scheherrezade the most educating music show ever.In those days bands had to work their socks off to gain the huge followings they eventually had,no over night success as in these modern reality shows like the dreaded x factor.
Prog is still very vibrant it stays with you no matter the age;witness the success of Classic Rocks Prog Mag. And so is Neil Diamond,saw him 2 months ago at Hampden Park,Glasgow age 70 and he was simply amazing.
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Tony R
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 17:44 |
Now tell them what it was like during the First World War John, it must have been terrible listening to Yes in the trenches!
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 17:52 |
No such thing as some good ol´ poly-rhythms when you´re at war.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Fragile
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 18:19 |
Tony R wrote:
Now tell them what it was like during the First World War John, it must have been terrible listening to Yes in the trenches!
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Tony,how the hell are you? Well I hope.The trenches were bad for getting a good reception too much going on but ' Yours is no disgrace seemed to have some sort of revelance anyhow up and over can't let Lord Haig down can we?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 20:07 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: September 16 2011 at 20:09 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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