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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 05 2011 at 20:59 |
This forms-rules-wise regulation got me thinking a bit. I am quite concerned about how much or less should be spoken. There is one experience I would like to bring to the table which tends to confuse a lot of people. In the music business during the 70's, 80's, 90's ...drugs were offered to musicians from the record company staff. Whoever arrived to the show from the staff could offer you the best quality drugs in the world. Not street drugs. The story Fito la Perra drummer with Canned Heat told is quite the opposite. Where the coffee shop in Australia was raided like a scene right out of the "French Connection'. Where Henry Vestine (fired by Zappa for drug usage), feverishly tried to get this very young record executive to dispose of his needles and speed bag. The poor kid knew nothing about drugs. He threw the stuff in a fountain.
Not the case in my experience. I never met a record executive who had a sincere innocent nature about them. They wanted us to be strung out for one particular reason only. When you are traveling the road....you become un-balanced because your physical body and mental state are vulnerable. I didn't allow that to destroy me although sometimes I almost gave in. I was raised differently then many of the folks around me who were on the road with me in the 70's. I was attracted more to the Amish way of life and did follow some of those morals. In the 70's record executives had a master plan for musicians. The style of life for the musician was already laid out and you had to be raised differently or just be a true individual to avoid indulging in it. But it was a trick because if people from the staff COULD get you hooked it would be easier for them to con you. They would show to your gig or room and ask you to sign a contract as you stood there high on something....and had a rude awakening 6 months later because you signed your royalities away. You're so tired of traveling and just want to sleep and if all you have to do is sign a paper then so be it. Drugs came from the higher ups. Big managers and even agents and owners of venues. This is where society becomes confused or have a difficult time believing it. The world thinks for the most part....that sex and drugs come from the audience or hanger-ons. It only does if the musician allows it. Sex and drugs are offered in most cases from the staff or the management. People who are protecting you. People you trust. People who gave me cars, instruments, and payed me thousands of dollars. The world may consider this for a moment or 2...but can't visualize it unless they are in the business themselves and experience it first hand.
This is why most people in the world are under the assumption that groupies are sex for the musician and drugs are given to musicians by dealers and fans ONLY. The record company staff back then was always let off the hook. It sound farce to everyone and that is more than cool for the dogs of the industry ...for it paints a better image for them and paves a clear path for them to continue criminal activity.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8614
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Posted: September 06 2011 at 11:11 |
I've learned a lot from your various posts in this thread, TODDLER. Man, you've been put through the wringer, in more ways than one! At least in the final analysis, you are able to talk about it, and thus educate people who were unaware of some of these things. I don't blame you for ending up depressed and dissollusioned after what you have witnessed, and and been put through that only shows that you're human and not one of the you-know-whats that preyed upon others with no care or concience
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: September 06 2011 at 11:38 |
This has been a very interesting thread so far to say the least. I´m 29, so I´m only here for "the show". Before my punk and hardcore metal days - I started out listening to the likes of Jimi, Doors, Free, Miller Band(from the sixties), Who, Santana, Neil Young and all kinds of famous west-coast artists from back then: Quicksilver Messenger, Dead and Jefferson to name a few. I´ve watched Woodstock more times than I can count, and everything related to what happened back then(also when things turned sour and the drugs no longer were the mind openers they started out as, but rather the opposite) - I´d suck up like a sponge. The whole idea of "changing" how we think about life and society through music just had me hooked. I know a lot of people frown upon these ideals today - especially reformed hippies, but I´d like to think that music just might be the greatest bridge-building device we´ll ever come across. I´ll keep reading this thread - no matter how jealous I get of some of you guys...
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: September 06 2011 at 15:37 |
presdoug wrote:
I've learned a lot from your various posts in this thread, TODDLER. Man, you've been put through the wringer, in more ways than one! At least in the final analysis, you are able to talk about it, and thus educate people who were unaware of some of these things. I don't blame you for ending up depressed and dissollusioned after what you have witnessed, and and been put through that only shows that you're human and not one of the you-know-whats that preyed upon others with no care or concience
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Thanks. I think people are aware of it on a site like this, but maybe not the magnitude of my experience. So in point that makes me annoying Obviously there are thousands of musicians who traveled the road for 30 some years like me....witnessed organized crime and have amazing stories. I would like to hear them. I am not depressed just haunted by what I witnessed .......I miss the fun of it all. But the music business I knew is dead. Now I just focus on composition. A lot of what comes out of Zappa's mouth is true. He tells that old story about the hippie who used to go out and buy coffee and donuts for the record executives. The guys who were about to retire in 6 years decided to hire a hippie to make suggestions. Suggestions on who to sign or assist the older executives in choosing a musical direction more suitable for profit than art. But anyway....I'm too old for depression from personal experiences. It doesn't affect me with that magnitude any longer. I surpassed that emotionally charged energy crap. Now I just like to tell the stories or read the stories of others.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8614
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Posted: September 06 2011 at 20:47 |
TODDLER wrote:
presdoug wrote:
I've learned a lot from your various posts in this thread, TODDLER. Man, you've been put through the wringer, in more ways than one! At least in the final analysis, you are able to talk about it, and thus educate people who were unaware of some of these things. I don't blame you for ending up depressed and dissollusioned after what you have witnessed, and and been put through that only shows that you're human and not one of the you-know-whats that preyed upon others with no care or concience
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Thanks. I think people are aware of it on a site like this, but maybe not the magnitude of my experience. So in point that makes me annoying Obviously there are thousands of musicians who traveled the road for 30 some years like me....witnessed organized crime and have amazing stories. I would like to hear them. I am not depressed just haunted by what I witnessed .......I miss the fun of it all. But the music business I knew is dead. Now I just focus on composition. A lot of what comes out of Zappa's mouth is true. He tells that old story about the hippie who used to go out and buy coffee and donuts for the record executives. The guys who were about to retire in 6 years decided to hire a hippie to make suggestions. Suggestions on who to sign or assist the older executives in choosing a musical direction more suitable for profit than art. But anyway....I'm too old for depression from personal experiences. It doesn't affect me with that magnitude any longer. I surpassed that emotionally charged energy crap. Now I just like to tell the stories or read the stories of others. |
thanks for your reply-maybe i should not have used the words depressed or disollusioned, exactly, sorry-great that you're focusing on composition
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JeanFrame
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 01 2010
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 195
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Posted: September 07 2011 at 03:36 |
I find it quite amusing that what at the time was just straight-forward and ordinary becomes, through time and tinted glasses, mythic. The clubs like the Marquee were just......clubs; the bands were.......just bands.....the jam sessions with legendary musicians were.....generally rubbish. But then again, it all seemed great fun. We were all incredibly innocent and naive, though of course, we thought we were very worldly.
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pony tail
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 08 2011
Location: racine
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: September 08 2011 at 10:39 |
I was born nov. 3 1960 so I got the best of the 60s and 70s. A lot of ups and downs but one hell of a ride. I am what I am because of those years A peace Loving down to earth person. the music set me free they sure dont write music like that any more. I get lost in the old tunes and the memorys come flooding back. yes the 60s and 70s changed me forever and I love who I have become. my music is my life. rock on and on till the cows come home. peace out to every one out there in computer land.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14071
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Posted: September 08 2011 at 10:58 |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
Status: Offline
Points: 2585
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Posted: September 08 2011 at 11:03 |
I was born on 1955 and i think as you that computers and web are fantastic, incredible but i remember that sharing a few precious singles with a few friends was fantastic too because we got so few records at the time and we wanted so much more
Edited by jean-marie - September 08 2011 at 17:26
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sturoc
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 124
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 11:32 |
One Radio Station was the king: WNEW FM in NYC. If it wasn't for them my music background would be 1/1000 th of what it is today. Every day it seemed there was a new song or group that made the day for you. I have over 100 cassettes of WNEW radio from back then and trying to get them into digital is a time consuming task though and the quality is not like recording today.
The 70s ended too early for our gang of musicians, friends, girlfriends
etc. During High School we just wanted to get out and once out we
wanted to go back in !
In the mid 70s for $5 you could get a six pack beer, cigarettes and a cheap fast burger- you were set for the night. We would plan weekend trips every few weeks and Line up the music to go along with it. It was as important as the gas to get there! Once a week we would go to a few of the smaller chain record stores like Harmony Hut, Alwick, Not so much Sam Goodys they were a bit to mainstream. But did have most of the charting groups Yes ELP Genesis and alot of Hard Rock etc. Also there were a few Musical Instrument shops that carried a short selection of lps . Prices ranged from $ 2.99 to $8.99 round there you were getting into double album territory $8 and up. The lower prices seemed just right, higher was "save up for a week or two" Cover art and the instrumentation was key to a purchase of an unknown
group.If you heard one song on the radio that was enough to seal the
deal. Harmony Hut had an awesome import rack: German and other Euro artists but those prices were usually higher. They still had it going on in the mid 80s too When we were searching for the first release of Eddie Jobson's Zinc The Green Lp. It was on the new release wall and the sales girl who was a knock out said she just got it and loved it, I was in instant love with her !!! Of course the Lp turned out to be Iconic for sure. oops back to the 70s:
We also had our own bands back then and it was quite the scene between groups in high school too. I remember at a High school Battle o Bands one group doing Dear Prudence with a video projection screen backdrop of a movie they made of the beach witth a girl etc. THIS WAS 1973 ! Before the days of Varilites, LED Lo and Hi res video, Full lighting rigs hung from the grids /roofs of halls and arenas. Remember going to a school dance in the gym which was pretty big and this band brought every piece of gear they could scrape up. Cause it was also how many amps and cabs you had on stage in addition to your musicianship which made you a good band or not. This guy was playing a Clear Lucite bass thru some old Gibson amps ( yes they made amps too) and Guild +Ampeg cabs I asked him where he got it from and he said " Rondo Music Man !" shaking his head up and down with the song they were playing.
Do you know of these groups :::
The Hometown Band Crawler Lake TIm Duffy's Orchestra of Clouds The re-formed Focus (1977) this is one I cannot find anywhere but have one track on tape whcih i will post later. Cluster
The 70s are the Diamond in my life, If I could go back I would without a doubt.
Edited by sturoc - September 09 2011 at 11:45
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progmetalhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 2081
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 13:39 |
For me, Woolworth's, Independent record stores and Radio Caroline.
...and loved every minute of it. The same as trawling the internet to discover new music now except using your legs.
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ergaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 294
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 13:47 |
Do you know of these groups :::
The Hometown Band Crawler Lake TIm Duffy's Orchestra of Clouds The re-formed Focus (1977) this is one I cannot find anywhere but have one track on tape whcih i will post later. Cluster
The 70s are the Diamond in my life, If I could go back I would without a doubt.
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Heard of Crawler but only vaguely, but I own Cluster + Eno, and After the Heat (Eno, Moebius, Roedelius). I even like them!
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We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.
Captain Malcolm Reynolds
Reality rules, Honor the truth
Chemist99a R.I.P.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8614
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 16:17 |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7264
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 16:23 |
TODDLER wrote:
This forms-rules-wise regulation got me thinking a bit. I am quite concerned about how much or less should be spoken. There is one experience I would like to bring to the table which tends to confuse a lot of people. In the music business during the 70's, 80's, 90's ...drugs were offered to musicians from the record company staff. Whoever arrived to the show from the staff could offer you the best quality drugs in the world. Not street drugs. The story Fito la Perra drummer with Canned Heat told is quite the opposite. Where the coffee shop in Australia was raided like a scene right out of the "French Connection'. Where Henry Vestine (fired by Zappa for drug usage), feverishly tried to get this very young record executive to dispose of his needles and speed bag. The poor kid knew nothing about drugs. He threw the stuff in a fountain.
Not the case in my experience. I never met a record executive who had a sincere innocent nature about them. They wanted us to be strung out for one particular reason only. When you are traveling the road....you become un-balanced because your physical body and mental state are vulnerable. I didn't allow that to destroy me although sometimes I almost gave in. I was raised differently then many of the folks around me who were on the road with me in the 70's. I was attracted more to the Amish way of life and did follow some of those morals. In the 70's record executives had a master plan for musicians. The style of life for the musician was already laid out and you had to be raised differently or just be a true individual to avoid indulging in it. But it was a trick because if people from the staff COULD get you hooked it would be easier for them to con you. They would show to your gig or room and ask you to sign a contract as you stood there high on something....and had a rude awakening 6 months later because you signed your royalities away. You're so tired of traveling and just want to sleep and if all you have to do is sign a paper then so be it. Drugs came from the higher ups. Big managers and even agents and owners of venues. This is where society becomes confused or have a difficult time believing it. The world thinks for the most part....that sex and drugs come from the audience or hanger-ons. It only does if the musician allows it. Sex and drugs are offered in most cases from the staff or the management. People who are protecting you. People you trust. People who gave me cars, instruments, and payed me thousands of dollars. The world may consider this for a moment or 2...but can't visualize it unless they are in the business themselves and experience it first hand.
This is why most people in the world are under the assumption that groupies are sex for the musician and drugs are given to musicians by dealers and fans ONLY. The record company staff back then was always let off the hook. It sound farce to everyone and that is more than cool for the dogs of the industry ...for it paints a better image for them and paves a clear path for them to continue criminal activity. |
Remarkable post, thanks. I've only been on the periphery of the pro music scene during the 70's, but knew about the drug scene, which was a major turn off for me. I had my chance & trod the rock & roll stage, but also realized that it was a brutal lifestyle.
It is noteworthy that some of our prog heroes resisted the siren call of drugs/record company manipulation and pressure in those times. Notably, Frank Zappa and Robert Fripp were prescient. John McLaughlin turned away from drugs and embraced his Eastern religious teachings, which probably saved him.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17497
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Posted: September 09 2011 at 16:23 |
jammun wrote:
To sort of counteract my earlier post...the one which had Dean sneezing. Some of us cared. Ya wanna have a lottery to determine whether or not you go to Viet Nam? Is that what you want? That's what it was. And no right to vote! I still have my 1-A draft card. That's a priceless, for me, piece of history. Good thing I lucked out in the lottery, though obviously some here may disagree, and I would better have been a name on that wall. |
Yeah ... number 9 on the very first lottery ... check it out ... Nov 22nd!
I got lucky ... my English stunk and it showed in my high school records and I had no idea what they were asking me at the Draft Board, and I filed as a Conscientious Objector and they gave me a 4F. It was also that same week that several folks from Madison/Dane County also died in VietNam ... like 7 or 8 of them, and I think the draft board decided they weren't going to enlist many kids from that area, because the University with 50k students could make some serious noise ... that no draft board or newspaper, or government really wants to deal with!
CCR's song was one of my themes, but I was more into The Doors, and the far out stuff that Jefferson Airplane were doing and learning about the Europeans at that time, since I was already in tune with Film and Theater ... which most people were not. The Fellini's, Antonioni's, the Bergman's, the Godard's ... they were the "progressive ones in film ... and theater was no different. By that time Tennessee Williams had fallen out of favor and everyone thought that Edward Albee couldn't do wrong, and I thought he was just a really bad acid trip!
Music however, had more in it, and the cross culture barriers came down much faster than almost in all other arts ... !
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17497
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 16:32 |
TODDLER wrote:
This forms-rules-wise regulation got me thinking a bit. I am quite concerned about how much or less should be spoken. ... drugs ...
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A lot of that time and place, was centered around drugs. It was not a secret and it was not a big deal, and even Woodstock shows it.
The problem was, that it was creating a culture that I did not find attractive or worth while. I had come from a high literary world, and a lot of the music and even John Lennon were important to me ... (... you can count me out! ...) mostly because of the social "be-in" routine ... you gotta be cool and with it and get stoned ... and it's the same thing on this board with the music! ... don't kid yourself ...
In Madison, the drugs had an undertone that was social and political and as far as I was concerned, a bit more "experiential" in that it was at least ok to enjoy and appreciate the "trip" and the experience.
In Santa Barbara, it was a major fad! ... I mean FAD ... and it was screwed up! ... and it was always ... you got the dope you got the lay ... and it did not necessarily mean drugs, but could also mean a nice car or money and a concert ... and many times you found people doing things that they did not want to do, but it was ok because they are "bought" for the night, so to speak!
The music itself, in California, was almost all a major fad, and if you were not into CSN&Y or Judy Collins, or Joni Mitchell ... you were not hip or cool ... never mind if you played Fairport Convention or King Crimson in the middle of that ... which could bust up the mood real quick!
For me, the same thing happened to music and ... many of us are trying to remember something that had less to do with the music itself than it did the feeling at the time and what it all meant.
That drugs went on to take the lives of many and hurt music ... is not surprising and I always thought that it was done on purpose to make sure that it killed the music ... which is, what really happened in the end, isn't it, and gave way to the "hits" ... and guess what we remember today the most? ... yep ... the hits ...
So, in the end, I wonder which is the worst drug?
One you can overcome ... the other? ... you are a slave to it and done! And lucky to get out alive ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8614
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 17:09 |
as a sort of F#$% up teenager, i tried street drugs, in the late seventies-early eighties period, but i was always really more into the music! more than a lot of the kids who were more into the stone i have been completely clean from all street drugs for almost 29 years, and it is the best decision i ever made! Man, music itself is the greatest high there is-i don't need anything else
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8614
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 17:19 |
i always thought it was really cool when Zappa told Mick Jagger to leave his party when he lit up a joint!
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 901
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 21:45 |
presdoug wrote:
i always thought it was really cool when Zappa told Mick Jagger to leave his party when he lit up a joint!
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I'm not trying to be a cool edgy teenager here but that's just f**king lame. It's cool if you don't smoke pot but it's a party I mean come on
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65244
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Posted: September 12 2011 at 21:47 |
oh Frank, you old geek you
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