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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 14:55 |
It seems almost fashionable to dump on ELP(even prog fans seem to do it quite a bit). However, even though I do feel their influence and importance could be over stated and their immense popularity not fully deserved when comparing to other bands(such as Genesis for example who weren't nearly as well known in the US when ELP had their peak) I nonetheless feel that there is a place for even ELP in the discussion of important prog albums and bands. Sure, they were over the top but their music can still be fun to listen to and I think they were all very talented. If there is any prog band who could said to be both under rated and over rated at the same time I think that band would be ELP. They aren't in my top five or probably even top ten but I still like them quite a bit and think they made a few very good and very important albums.
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 901
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 15:11 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
It seems almost fashionable to dump on ELP(even prog fans seem to do it quite a bit). However, even though I do feel their influence and importance could be over stated and their immense popularity not fully deserved when comparing to other bands(such as Genesis for example who weren't nearly as well known in the US when ELP had their peak) I nonetheless feel that there is a place for even ELP in the discussion of important prog albums and bands. Sure, they were over the top but their music can still be fun to listen to and I think they were all very talented. If there is any prog band who could said to be both under rated and over rated at the same time I think that band would be ELP. They aren't in my top five or probably even top ten but I still like them quite a bit and think they made a few very good and very important albums.
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People who hate on ELP probably listened to Karn Evil 9 and haven't heard far superior songs such as Tarkus or The Endless Enigma. ELP is awesome! Well the music, anyway. The lyrics are pretty vomit-inducing.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 15:22 |
I hate ELP a lot and I've heard Tarkus, Karn Evil 9, all of the Debut...every song they wrote for their first four or five albums, all of Trilogy, all of BSS, all of it. I can't stand them, usually.
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ten years after
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1008
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 22:53 |
The history of classic British Prog in ten easy steps
Sgt Pepper
Tommy
Court of the Crimson King
Liege & Leaf
Emerson Lake & Palmer
Pawn Hearts
Ziggy Stargust
Close to the Edge Dark Side of the Moon
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
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ten years after
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1008
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 23:12 |
Here are 10 albums (or non-album in one case) which probably should have been more important than they turned out to be:
5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion (Incredible String Band)
Saucerful of Secrets (Pink Floyd)
Ars Longa Vita Brevis (the Nice)
SF Sorrow (Pretty Things)
The Least we can do is Wave to Each Other (VDGG)
Lifehouse (The Who)
The Alchemist (Home)
Tales From Topographic Oceans (Yes)
Past Present & Future (Al Stewart)
The Snow Goose (Camel)
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: June 11 2011 at 23:36 |
Was the Who's "lifehouse" ever released officially or just as a bootleg? I've heard of the sesssions but I never heard of it being an official release. I know some of it surfaced on "odds and sodds" but as far as I know that's about it.
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 00:03 |
- Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
- S.F. Sorrow - The Pretty Things
- Piper At The Gates Of Dawn - Pink Floyd
- Not In The Court Of The Crimson King
- Bitches Brew - Miles Davis
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 01:06 |
The Truth wrote:
- Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
- S.F. Sorrow - The Pretty Things
- Piper At The Gates Of Dawn - Pink Floyd
- Not In The Court Of The Crimson King
- Bitches Brew - Miles Davis
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Take this list and add Freak Out! and it works for me
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65253
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 01:09 |
Smiley Smile Revolver Procol Harum Ars Longa Vita Brevis Stand Up Trespass Emerson,Lake&Palmer The Yes Album Tarkus Larks' Tongues in Aspic
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 12 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6446
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 01:53 |
The Wall
Asia
90125
Misplaced Childhood
Invisible Touch
So
the album Tull won the 'best hard/heavy metal' Grammy for
OK Computer
Lateralus
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
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ten years after
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1008
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 04:37 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Was the Who's "lifehouse" ever released officially or just as a bootleg? I've heard of the sesssions but I never heard of it being an official release. I know some of it surfaced on "odds and sodds" but as far as I know that's about it. |
Lifehouse was the "non-album" that i referred to in my post. Half of it was released as Who's Next but the material that could have found its way onto a double album in 1971 or 1972 was incredible.
Townshend eventually released the Lifehouse Chronicles in 2000 but too late to be called an important prog album.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 05:32 |
The Crazy World of Arthur Brown s/t début - the symphonic scope
of Vincent Crane's arrangements plus a little mini opera at it's centre
make this a pivotal record in prog's gestation
Ars Longa Vita Brevis - ironically the poorest selling album by
the Nice, but if nothing else the side long title suite proved that rock
and classical could start dating with their respective parents grudging
consent (no tongues mind)
In the Court of the Crimson King - although deeply flawed, it's
material success and subsequent mainstream exposure made this something
of a prog portal for many
Tarkus - of ELP's first 5 classic albums this one has aged the
least gracefully but it got to number 1 in the UK charts and like
ITCOTCK put Prog firmly on the map of popular consciousness in 1971
Larks Tongues in Aspic - one of the most important and influential rock albums of any genre (period)
Dark Side of the Moon - love it or loathe it, it's listed here
because it's the closest thing anything prog related has to being a
cultural artefact (people who don't own it or haven't heard it are just
plain vanilla lying)
In Absentia - proof that progressive rock could still flourish in 90's garb without any trace of self consciousness
Prog's 1st generation suicide notes were probably:
Tales from Topographic Oceans - nowhere near as bad as it's most
vociferous detractors would have you believe but every barb ever thrown
at the bloated prog mammoth is confirmed here in spades - long winded,
pretentious, gauche, wilfully impenetrable, divorced from reality and
pompous.
Works Volume 1 - not even a bona fide ELP album but 3 mini solo
albums with a big group hug on side four. I'll do the maths for you:
piano concerto + 5 saccharine gooey ballads + what happens when you let a
drummer write music = punk rock (BTW punk didn't kill prog, prog did)
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28028
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Posted: June 13 2011 at 09:59 |
Its just an opinion as is mine . Trilogy has very good lyrics as does the debut album. When ELP moved into sci-fi territory they tended to lose it on the lyrcis side mainly because Lake was not that interested in the subject matter and had to be pushed in that direction almost against his will (Tarkus almost split the band up such was Lake's initial opposition towards it). They got Sinfield in to help on the lyrics for Brain Salad Surgery and he also contributed the lyrics for Pirates which I personally like a lot.
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
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Posted: June 13 2011 at 14:25 |
Karn Evil 9 is sh#t? Hardly, fella. Good stuff, Maynard.
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 901
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Posted: June 13 2011 at 14:35 |
esky wrote:
Karn Evil 9 is sh#t? Hardly, fella. Good stuff, Maynard. |
I never said that! I'm just saying that despite being their most famous, it's FAR from their best.
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: June 13 2011 at 14:44 |
From a historical perspective, with justifications.
1. The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed. No matter what anybody tells you, this was the first prog album.
2. King Crimson - In The Court of King Crimson. The album that most people believe began the prog movement.
3. The New Trolls - Concerto Gross Per 1. The birth of the Italian Prog movement.
4. Genesis - Foxtrot. One of two albums that comes to define classic prog.
5. Yes - Close to the Edge. The other album that defines classic prog.
6. Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear. The album that resurrects prog in the English speaking world.
7. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon. This was popular for an insanely long time, bringing prog to the masses.
8, King Crimson - Discipline. In the wasteland of the '80's, Fripp kept the torch lit.
9 Premiata Forneria Marconi - Per Un Amico. The crown jewel of the Italian prog movement.
10. Rush - Permanent Waves. This kept the prog fires alive during times that were growing increasingly darker.
It saddens me that I could not find room for ELP or The Flower Kings in this list.
Edited by ghost_of_morphy - June 13 2011 at 14:48
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
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Posted: June 14 2011 at 09:57 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
From a historical perspective, with justifications.
1. The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed. No matter what anybody tells you, this was the first prog album.
2. King Crimson - In The Court of King Crimson. The album that most people believe began the prog movement.
3. The New Trolls - Concerto Gross Per 1. The birth of the Italian Prog movement.
4. Genesis - Foxtrot. One of two albums that comes to define classic prog.
5. Yes - Close to the Edge. The other album that defines classic prog.
6. Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear. The album that resurrects prog in the English speaking world.
7. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon. This was popular for an insanely long time, bringing prog to the masses.
8, King Crimson - Discipline. In the wasteland of the '80's, Fripp kept the torch lit.
9 Premiata Forneria Marconi - Per Un Amico. The crown jewel of the Italian prog movement.
10. Rush - Permanent Waves. This kept the prog fires alive during times that were growing increasingly darker.
It saddens me that I could not find room for ELP or The Flower Kings in this list. |
You still can - just flush the Rush and eradicate Marillion.
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: June 14 2011 at 10:21 |
In no Particular order:
In the Court of the Crimson King |
De-Loused in the Comatorium |
Lizard |
Islands |
Larks' Tongues in Aspic |
Red |
Discipline |
Lamb lies down on broadway |
Level Five |
The ConstruKction of Light
Hard to say though, could have forgotten something. |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: June 14 2011 at 17:21 |
esky wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
From a historical perspective, with justifications.
1. The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed. No matter what anybody tells you, this was the first prog album.
2. King Crimson - In The Court of King Crimson. The album that most people believe began the prog movement.
3. The New Trolls - Concerto Gross Per 1. The birth of the Italian Prog movement.
4. Genesis - Foxtrot. One of two albums that comes to define classic prog.
5. Yes - Close to the Edge. The other album that defines classic prog.
6. Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear. The album that resurrects prog in the English speaking world.
7. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon. This was popular for an insanely long time, bringing prog to the masses.
8, King Crimson - Discipline. In the wasteland of the '80's, Fripp kept the torch lit.
9 Premiata Forneria Marconi - Per Un Amico. The crown jewel of the Italian prog movement.
10. Rush - Permanent Waves. This kept the prog fires alive during times that were growing increasingly darker.
It saddens me that I could not find room for ELP or The Flower Kings in this list. |
You still can - just flush the Rush and eradicate Marillion. |
I can understand flushing the Rush. There are plenty of other albums that could hit that 10 spot. Gotta love Marilion for resurrecting a genre though, whether you like them or not.
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
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Posted: June 15 2011 at 10:33 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
esky wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
From a historical perspective, with justifications.
1. The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed. No matter what anybody tells you, this was the first prog album.
2. King Crimson - In The Court of King Crimson. The album that most people believe began the prog movement.
3. The New Trolls - Concerto Gross Per 1. The birth of the Italian Prog movement.
4. Genesis - Foxtrot. One of two albums that comes to define classic prog.
5. Yes - Close to the Edge. The other album that defines classic prog.
6. Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear. The album that resurrects prog in the English speaking world.
7. Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon. This was popular for an insanely long time, bringing prog to the masses.
8, King Crimson - Discipline. In the wasteland of the '80's, Fripp kept the torch lit.
9 Premiata Forneria Marconi - Per Un Amico. The crown jewel of the Italian prog movement.
10. Rush - Permanent Waves. This kept the prog fires alive during times that were growing increasingly darker.
It saddens me that I could not find room for ELP or The Flower Kings in this list. |
You still can - just flush the Rush and eradicate Marillion. |
I can understand flushing the Rush. There are plenty of other albums that could hit that 10 spot. Gotta love Marilion for resurrecting a genre though, whether you like them or not. |
Granted. Just can't get past Fish's mugging of Gabriel. Bought that album of theirs from the mid-'80s with the FM hit on it and was generally unimpressed so that subsequent listenings of other albums left a bad taste in my mouth, IMHO. As with Pendragon, I can appreciate Marillion's attempt's to honor that which has gone before them.
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