Reforming the PA database in democratic manner

Let the PA " animal" breathe.......a work in progress formed by thousands of individual' hours and dedication. Let it be.

And now for an off-topic:  I always thought Dean's avatar was Tracy Ullman 

JJLehto wrote: All of it of course Dean, need to comb the site. Hope you're not getting defensive, this is just a website Death is a good example of a band that really makes no sense, and opens up the chance for other bands that don't belong. I know it'd be a hell of a project but a "Prog Album" makes sense. Bands that have one or two albums can get the recognition they deserve without adding the band and causing a storm. Also I've heard there is only one PMT that covers Prog Metal, Post/Experimental and Tech/Extreme? And prog metal is pretty loaded, maybe make 3 teams instead of having the PMT  do all that? Would lighten that load they are always talking about, (especially since they never seem to have enough people) and makes sense. Why have those 3 separate for the site but all done under one team?

It's not a matter of being defensive, but simple questioning. Perception of a problem is a degree of magnitude - these floodgates that open and lead to a flood of borderline/questionable/related bands is either a reality or it is not. The hyperbole of your first post in this thread gives the impression that this is a huge problem that is getting worse (that's kind of how floods generally happen - they are a cascade effect). Yet if "Death" is the first one that you cite, and that was a band added 4 years ago by the PMT, then it suggests to me that this flood is a mere trickle.

Edited by Dean - March 21 2011 at 20:50

If we're going to clean up anything, splitting Math Rock and Post Rock should be step number one...but I might be biased.

JJLehto wrote: Padraic wrote: Dean wrote: I assume you do know that a floodgate is a something that restrains and controls the flow of water... I'm sure JJ just omitted the crucial "the opening of" in his use of the idiom.   More like "everyone will know what I mean" But I forgot this is PA! You need to spell everything out or else everyone will call you out on it, even though its obvious what you meant... My posts are long enough already people!

Okay, now we've got the definition out of the way, which particular flood of borderline/questionable/related bands are you referring to? The ones in Prog Metal? Prog Folk? Avant Prog? Jazz/Rock Fusion? Eceleleeclectic Prog? Crossover Prog? or Prog Related?

Edited by Dean - March 21 2011 at 14:41

Dean wrote: I assume you do know that a floodgate is a something that restrains and controls the flow of water...

I don't support the removal of artists from the site. It would cause as many issues and arguments as it would solve, although I do think that the additions process does need to be cleaned up a bit. It is without doubt becoming highly contentious.

In a sick and sad way, I am glad my warning that letting all these borderline/questionable/related bands was going to lead to a floodgate....
Maybe some disagree but I think, and know others think, lots of artist do not belong here. Hate to be a tight fist....but I just think the site needs to have some stricter standards. Because looser will just lead to more and more artists being added that do not deserve it. I would not mind seeing some stricter acceptance.

Deleting albums is a sticky wicket since people will lose reviews.
Instead of deleting, I propose an idea I had a while ago, one implemented on MMA, album by album.
One prog (or maybe even proggy album) warrants the bands inclusion in whole??
While MMA style is fine, I always wanted an "album" section that is literally just the prog albums a band has done.

I'm not sure what you mean by democratic but we could have a poll for every artist to be added to get the input of everyone. Final vote left to the team of course, but still they could see what we lowly forum members feel at least.

Also this could be done to help sort out bands that my only have a few prog albums, or one, out of their discog.

A lot of work it would take, but if enough people are serious about music to care, they'll take the time.

DamoXt7942 wrote: Please wait all mates, quite a few members posting here may be very nervous about removal of artists I've felt ... mentioned only that we "can" reform etc ... and "in some cases" remove ... yes, I've said let me propose we can remove in some cases in accordance with our sincere and serious opinion and certain democratic manner. And also let me say that I do believe no Collaborator has an intention to entrap or bug PA or other Collaborators ...only what I've emphasized is to avoid permitting any dictatorship or bulldozing in PA. Anyway ... Bob (Easy Livin), I'm always appreciating your sincere efforts with your serious and strict attitude for PA, and let me ask you as one of the longest Admins in PA, please; I've found there are "vacant" seats (artist ID numbers) in PA, and some of them have been obviously deleted already (realized via old threads like this ... ID1851 is a "vacant" seat already vaporized) ... what does this mean? Padraic wrote: I believe one could find some artists added during this time that most might agree don't belong. Related to this opinion? Easy Livin wrote: By all means review the additions process though Well again please let me propose, we should clarify the process of evaluation for subgenre candidates, including Proto-Prog and Prog-Related. We subgenre teams maybe have tried to show the process in the artist's thread of "Suggest ... " Forum if possible (sometimes lazy as honestly I say  ), but should we try harder to do so?

Edited by Dean - March 21 2011 at 13:43

Easy Livin wrote: I would strongly resist the removal of any artist from the database. Our collaborators put a lot of work in assessing additions, and our reviewers spend a lot of time preparing reviews. To subsequently remove a band or artist would be disrepectful to those who had previosuly made the efffort for this site.

I understand this, but this is not a defense of anything.  If you peek into the Libertarian thread for a minute, you will see that we criticize the government despite all that effort that goes into maintaining it.

In other words, suppose the Eclectic team added Lady Gaga.  Could we simply dispel the controversy that would be raised on this site by saying, "Yeah, but we worked very hard to add and review this artist!"