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Padraic View Drop Down
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Points: 31169 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 22:11
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

This one is even more fun

15 ratings/reviews total 

Showing last 50 only, select sub-genre in chart above to list all rating in that sub-genre.
1 starsTHE PSYCHEDELIC ENSEMBLE The Myth of Dying(rating only)
1 starsCICCADA A Child in the Mirror(rating only)
1 starsHAKEN Aquarius(rating only)
1 starsFROGG CAFÉ Bateless Edge(rating only)
1 starsIL TEMPIO DELLE CLESSIDRE Il Tempio delle Clessidre(rating only)
1 starsLUNATIC SOUL Lunatic Soul II(rating only)
1 starsALL OVER EVERYWHERE Inner Firmaments Decay(rating only)
1 starsKAIPA In The Wake Of Evolution(rating only)
1 starsYUGEN Iridule(rating only)
1 starsSKY ARCHITECT Excavations of the Mind(rating only)
1 starsHYPNOS 69 Legacy(rating only)
1 starsUNIVERS ZERO Clivages(rating only)
5 starsECHOES Nature/Existence(rating only)
1 starsEPHEMERAL SUN Harvest Aorta(rating only)
1 starsSHAOLIN DEATH SQUAD Five Deadly Venoms(rating only)


http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=32212


Angry Censored

My God, it doesn't get more pathetic than this.
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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Points: 14258 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 01:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

This one is even more fun

15 ratings/reviews total 

Showing last 50 only, select sub-genre in chart above to list all rating in that sub-genre.
1 starsTHE PSYCHEDELIC ENSEMBLE The Myth of Dying(rating only)
1 starsCICCADA A Child in the Mirror(rating only)
1 starsHAKEN Aquarius(rating only)
1 starsFROGG CAFÉ Bateless Edge(rating only)
1 starsIL TEMPIO DELLE CLESSIDRE Il Tempio delle Clessidre(rating only)
1 starsLUNATIC SOUL Lunatic Soul II(rating only)
1 starsALL OVER EVERYWHERE Inner Firmaments Decay(rating only)
1 starsKAIPA In The Wake Of Evolution(rating only)
1 starsYUGEN Iridule(rating only)
1 starsSKY ARCHITECT Excavations of the Mind(rating only)
1 starsHYPNOS 69 Legacy(rating only)
1 starsUNIVERS ZERO Clivages(rating only)
5 starsECHOES Nature/Existence(rating only)
1 starsEPHEMERAL SUN Harvest Aorta(rating only)
1 starsSHAOLIN DEATH SQUAD Five Deadly Venoms(rating only)


http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=32212
 
[Firstly - anyone here accusing Echoes of conspiring to rig the ratings? Or can we assume this is a lone gun man operating out of a book depository in ... erm...(looks up user's IP address on IP2Location)... Venezuela?]
 
Right - now we're getting somewhere. In itself there is nothing "against the rules" in what that user has done here - morally wrong and a bit naughty by all means, but not illegal as such - it could be genuine - he really could have listened to all 15 albums and only liked one of them.
 
Yes, we can all see that is very probably not the truth of the matter, and he is deliberately smacking all those albums above his beloved Echoes CD in the Top 100 chart, and we can guess with a high degree of certainty that he hasn't heard all of the other 14, possibly even any of them. But we cannot PROVE that.
 
 
However, A quick IP check and it seems that this user has two accounts:
 
 
That's what I call conclusive proof of deliberate manipulation.
 
Guilty as charged - off with his head.
 
Not difficult is it? Stern Smile
Sherlock Dean thClape forum's greatest detective!
Nice job.
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Points: 15585 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Livin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 03:43
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

a simple request for evidence like  IP addys/source files or back off nicely?
 
On the general point there Chris, we have a number of tools at our disposal. It's better that we do not reveal all of them, as it simply helps would-be manipulators to be aware of what they have to try to get around. It is though interesting to watch some who think they are clever enough to hoodwink us.Wink
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Points: 65692 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 04:51
ah, PA cloak&dagger!  Bob could tell you Chris but you might wake up with a Billy Squier album on your doorstep, and from there it gets ugly ...
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... and I'd have to shoot him!
 
 
Evil Smile
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Points: 22989 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 12:09
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=282801


Pretty much.
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=282801

Even when I don't fully agree with the form of the review, I completely agree with the position, Rush (Or the label) is trying to steal money from naive but faithful fans.

I'm tired of the bands releasing endless collections with the same tracks, yes, all are god, but they want to suck the blood from the faithful fan

In the case of Rush it's worst:

  1. Chronicles has all but one of the tracks
  2. Retrospective the same
  3. The Spirit of Radio (Greatest Hits) is basically the same and even better
  4. Rush Gold idem
  5. Working Men (Also another useless compilation album)
  6. Of course in 2010 they had to release Icon
Well guys, enough is enough, if they are unable to release a great album in the last decade, is time to live from concerts and stop trying to take us for fools who buy the same music with a different cover.

It's offensive

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 25 2010 at 12:55
            
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Points: 32995 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 13:15
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=282801

Even when I don't fully agree with the form of the review, I completely agree with the position, Rush (Or the label) is trying to steal money from naive but faithful fans.

I'm tired of the bands releasing endless collections with the same tracks, yes, all are god, but they want to suck the blood from the faithful fan

In the case of Rush it's worst:

  1. Chronicles has all but one of the tracks
  2. Retrospective the same
  3. The Spirit of Radio (Greatest Hits) is basically the same and even better
  4. Rush Gold idem
  5. Working Men (Also another useless compilation album)
  6. Of course in 2010 they had to release Icon
Well guys, enough is enough, if they are unable to release a great album in the last decade, is time to live from concerts and stop trying to take us for fools who buy the same music with a different cover.

It's offensive

Iván

My wife bought me it for Christmas. Why are you so mean?
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toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down
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Points: 3658 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toroddfuglesteg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 13:35

I have to agree with Ivan, I am afraid. Every single word of what he wrote, no less. 

Btw. I got my copy from a female friend. I also got a Queen sampler from her last Christmas.    



Edited by toroddfuglesteg - December 25 2010 at 13:42
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 13:38
Not mean Snow Dog.

I said the same about all Yes boxes.

But I understand your wife, she knows you are a Rush fan - saw an album you hadn't bought- she got it for you.

The worst CD's I have (Love Beach, Invisible Touch and A La Carte), were given by girlfriends or my sister, because they knew I am a Genesis, ELP and Triumvirat fan, so asked somebody in my house which albums of this bands I didn't own, so they got for me expecting I would love them.

That's natural.

BTW: I don't say the album is bad, has great songs, but it's unnecessary, all this tracks are in the official releases and in countless compilations - Look at the ratings.

Iván
            
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Yes all the songs are good and the reviewer admits as much but still gives it 1 star.
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 14:13
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Yes all the songs are good and the reviewer admits as much but still gives it 1 star.


That's the difference between a music review and a product review - PA doesn't tell us how to proceed in this situation.
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 14:37
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Yes all the songs are good and the reviewer admits as much but still gives it 1 star.


That's the difference between a music review and a product review - PA doesn't tell us how to proceed in this situation.

The problem is that in this cases music matters very little, this compilations are products, the music was made in the original albums., 

Rush album as in the case of compilations like the ones by Yes and ELP, are a method that labels use to bleed the fans,  they cross the level of abuse, they assume Progheads are silly fanboys that will buy anything, even if they have 20 copies of the same songs.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 25 2010 at 14:39
            
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 14:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Yes all the songs are good and the reviewer admits as much but still gives it 1 star.


That's the difference between a music review and a product review - PA doesn't tell us how to proceed in this situation.

For me an album is a product = Music + Production + Originality.


Everyone's free to have his own terminology, but generally "product reviews" are concerned with:

- how well is the packaging executed
- technical aspects regarding the material (sound for music albums, typography for art albums, etc)
- what are the differences when compared to other editions of the same, and especially what does this edition bring new (critical apparatus, documentary material, etc.)
- what is the relevance of the actual material published (like, can it be found elsewhere? what kind of "versions" are the "versions"? etc.)
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Points: 22989 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 14:50
Can someone please move our posts to Reviews Discussions? Big smile

Here's a typical "product review": http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=159935
And here's a "normal" review of the same album: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=114416

This case show perfectly how different the two point of view are, and how differently they can value the same object.
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Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Yes all the songs are good and the reviewer admits as much but still gives it 1 star.


That's the difference between a music review and a product review - PA doesn't tell us how to proceed in this situation.
Your subsuequent post below is a great example of why we don't do that. One man's meat etc.
 
In general, I think compilations will usually be subject to different reviewing criteria than original albums.
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Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=282801

Even when I don't fully agree with the form of the review, I completely agree with the position, Rush (Or the label) is trying to steal money from naive but faithful fans.

I'm tired of the bands releasing endless collections with the same tracks, yes, all are god, but they want to suck the blood from the faithful fan

In the case of Rush it's worst:

  1. Chronicles has all but one of the tracks
  2. Retrospective the same
  3. The Spirit of Radio (Greatest Hits) is basically the same and even better
  4. Rush Gold idem
  5. Working Men (Also another useless compilation album)
  6. Of course in 2010 they had to release Icon
Well guys, enough is enough, if they are unable to release a great album in the last decade, is time to live from concerts and stop trying to take us for fools who buy the same music with a different cover.

It's offensive

Iván

My wife bought me it for Christmas. Why are you so mean?
 
Hey it would be OK as a gift for the packaging and completionists like myself.
 
I wrote a review similar to that one and didn't get reported nor did Conor Fynes - We both gave it one star.... the difference between our reviews and the one above is his was more passionate and didnt hold back the anger and frustration of a useless compilation designed to bleed dry the already satiated Rush compilation clones market!
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Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

This one is even more fun

15 ratings/reviews total 

Showing last 50 only, select sub-genre in chart above to list all rating in that sub-genre.
1 starsTHE PSYCHEDELIC ENSEMBLE The Myth of Dying(rating only)
1 starsCICCADA A Child in the Mirror(rating only)
1 starsHAKEN Aquarius(rating only)
1 starsFROGG CAFÉ Bateless Edge(rating only)
1 starsIL TEMPIO DELLE CLESSIDRE Il Tempio delle Clessidre(rating only)
1 starsLUNATIC SOUL Lunatic Soul II(rating only)
1 starsALL OVER EVERYWHERE Inner Firmaments Decay(rating only)
1 starsKAIPA In The Wake Of Evolution(rating only)
1 starsYUGEN Iridule(rating only)
1 starsSKY ARCHITECT Excavations of the Mind(rating only)
1 starsHYPNOS 69 Legacy(rating only)
1 starsUNIVERS ZERO Clivages(rating only)
5 starsECHOES Nature/Existence(rating only)
1 starsEPHEMERAL SUN Harvest Aorta(rating only)
1 starsSHAOLIN DEATH SQUAD Five Deadly Venoms(rating only)


http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=32212
 
[Firstly - anyone here accusing Echoes of conspiring to rig the ratings? Or can we assume this is a lone gun man operating out of a book depository in ... erm...(looks up user's IP address on IP2Location)... Venezuela?]
 
Right - now we're getting somewhere. In itself there is nothing "against the rules" in what that user has done here - morally wrong and a bit naughty by all means, but not illegal as such - it could be genuine - he really could have listened to all 15 albums and only liked one of them.
 
Yes, we can all see that is very probably not the truth of the matter, and he is deliberately smacking all those albums above his beloved Echoes CD in the Top 100 chart, and we can guess with a high degree of certainty that he hasn't heard all of the other 14, possibly even any of them. But we cannot PROVE that.
 
 
However, A quick IP check and it seems that this user has two accounts:
 
 
That's what I call conclusive proof of deliberate manipulation.
 
Guilty as charged - off with his head.
 
Not difficult is it? Stern Smile
Sherlock Dean thClape forum's greatest detective!
Nice job.


Hello!, I'm a member of Echoes, and i find this very sad... Let me asure you that the band is not involved on this kind of things... We do published a link to progarchives on several venezuelan forums / facebook etc.. to get  ratings and reviews from local fans, but we didnt expected this behavior and we feel very ashamed by this... Of course we cannot be responsible for the actions of that user (or users), still i personally ask to all of you an apollogize...

Best regards!
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Originally posted by Dreamrafa Dreamrafa wrote:


Hello!, I'm a member of Echoes, and i find this very sad... Let me asure you that the band is not involved on this kind of things... We do published a link to progarchives on several venezuelan forums / facebook etc.. to get  ratings and reviews from local fans, but we didnt expected this behavior and we feel very ashamed by this... Of course we cannot be responsible for the actions of that user (or users), still i personally ask to all of you an apollogize...

Best regards!
Welcome Rafael - no need to apologise, as you say, you cannot be responsible for how others act. Yes, it is a shame that some fans behave in this way - they think they are helping the band but unfortunately all it does is encourage low ratings in revenge. Hopefully by acting quickly this time I have prevented such retaliations against your album.
What?
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Points: 32995 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 03:34
Good news for Guy. Seems like he could be innocent after all.
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