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Chris S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:49
Just get Ivan in here, he will do an unbiased legal analysisApprove
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GuyM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:52
"when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to".

Oh dear...we were doing so well to clear all this up as well
Please get over your gut feelings..it does not help anyone..show me some solid proof and fine, we'll have to deal with it, but I WILL NOT be called deceitful based on your 'faultless inner moral clock'..sorry..it is NOT good enough a reason to do that.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:55
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

There's a big difference between having suspicions and laying out your case. Despite seeing an obvious pattern and having enough experience to know how that pattern typically happens, you still have to grant each individual reasonable benefit of the doubt before you call them out.
 

I agree, the calling out was uncool on my part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GuyM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:59
This is getting us nowhere apart from getting me even more fed up.

There is NO vote rigging campaign running and never has been!!!!!!...if there is then show me some evidence or please all shut up about it now!!!!
Gut feelings, patterns, assumptions, innuendo, insults....all do nothing to help the situation or the site or me (selfishly)
Please let me know if you get anymore odd reviews etc and we'll talk about it, OK?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:10
I am not 30 years in music, as John is, but I am 20+ yrs in international business. So - there are plenty of folks who just work their job, and always some others,who think they are smart enough to play their own game.

Nothing strange, people are all the same, but on musical site speaking about music,this discussion reminds business meeting too much , Possibly it's great, businessmen started to play music, almost summer of love...

Edited by snobb - December 23 2010 at 13:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Negoba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:11
Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

This is getting us nowhere apart from getting me even more fed up.

There is NO vote rigging campaign running and never has been!!!!!!...if there is then show me some evidence or please all shut up about it now!!!!
Gut feelings, patterns, assumptions, innuendo, insults....all do nothing to help the situation or the site or me (selfishly)
Please let me know if you get anymore odd reviews etc and we'll talk about it, OK?
 
 
I showed you evidence of the pattern before. Just go through your reviews page. It's not that difficult.
 
Does that mean you're doing anything active? No. I actually suspect you're not.
 
But you could have handled this much better.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:13
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.

Gaaah!!!! That's not fact, that's not proof, that's not evidence. If you are going to make statements like that then you have to present substantiated irrefutable proof. Gut-feel and intuition is unacceptable.

Well, I know a web site is not a classroom, but you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a room full of teenagers with that kind of thinking. Cops know it too, when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to.
What's that supposed to mean? You wouldn't last 5 femtoseconds in my lab by guessing and supposing - which is as irrelevant to this as your classroom comment is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:24
Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

"when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to".


Oh dear...we were doing so well to clear all this up as well

Please get over your gut feelings..it does not help anyone..show me some solid proof and fine, we'll have to deal with it, but I WILL NOT be called deceitful based on your 'faultless inner moral clock'..sorry..it is NOT good enough a reason to do that.

 


Guy, do you see your name mentioned there? I apologised for using your name a long time ago and I moved on, we are having a hypothetical discussion about reviews now. Don't always assume people are talking about you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:28
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.

Gaaah!!!! That's not fact, that's not proof, that's not evidence. If you are going to make statements like that then you have to present substantiated irrefutable proof. Gut-feel and intuition is unacceptable.
Well, I know a web site is not a classroom, but you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a room full of teenagers with that kind of thinking. Cops know it too, when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to.

What's that supposed to mean? You wouldn't last 5 femtoseconds in my lab by guessing and supposing - which is as irrelevant to this as your classroom comment is.


All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jörgemeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:35
for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:38
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.
There is a whole world of difference between looking at an iffy review and accusing an artist of collusion. With the former you have the choice of accepting it, deleting it or asking the reviewer for a revision - with the latter you need hard concrete proof. The one choice you don't have is to accuse the artist without proof.
 
Yes a bogus review is still bogus, but the only person you can hold responsible for it is the person who posted it unless you have documented evidence of a chain of connection between the reviewer and the artist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:40
Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
  1. Who said Guy is a full-time artist?
  2. Surely full time artists have more free time than the rest of us
  3. Oh, btw - It's the Holidays Confused Who's working?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:42
Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.Just saying. Smile


He's not. He said he's just semi-pro, having his weekends and nights for his music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jörgemeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:49
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
  1. Who said Guy is a full-time artist?
  2. Surely full time artists have more free time than the rest of us
  3. Oh, btw - It's the Holidays Confused Who's working?
 


  1. He is not? well he seems to be. all those albums, the work with The Tangent, he puts more time into it than some full artists i know.
  2. If they do, they don't seem to like spending it in prog forums.
  3. I am Cry
And i wasn't saying it as a bad thing, I'd surely enjoy, lets say Roine Stolt to come here once in a while and chat a little with the fans.


Edited by Jörgemeister - December 23 2010 at 13:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:53
Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

em·pir·i·cism

[em-pir-uh-siz-uhm]  
–noun
1. undue reliance upon experience, as in medicine; quackery.


Since I'm not a doctor, I was thinking more along the lines of

em·pir·i·cism
 
(m-pîr-szm)

n.
1. The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.

There is a whole world of difference between looking at an iffy review and accusing an artist of collusion. With the former you have the choice of accepting it, deleting it or asking the reviewer for a revision - with the latter you need hard concrete proof. The one choice you don't have is to accuse the artist without proof.
 

Yes a bogus review is still bogus, but the only person you can hold responsible for it is the person who posted it unless you have documented evidence of a chain of connection between the reviewer and the artist.

Accusing an artist of collusion on an open forum is bad form, this is my 50th million apology on that at this point. Yes we should not do that. But still, it is pretty obvious to me when an artist is up to something, I know it when I see it.

But its not up to me to decide what to do about these guys, thats up to you guys.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jörgemeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 14:00
I've said this before, in some dark room full of virgins here in PA forums.

Wouldnt be useful to have a system to rate reviews? a simple one, same as Amazon has the question "Was this review useful to you?" Y/N and then it displays "N persons have found this review helpful"

instead of helpful we could use "accurate".

And who knows even weight a review depending on the numbers of cotes it has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 14:00
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:



But its not up to me to decide what to do about these guys, thats up to you guys.

Ah, so it is. So send us the evidence and we'll deal with it as we decide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 14:03
Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

I've said this before, in some dark room full of virgins here in PA forums.

Wouldnt be useful to have a system to rate reviews? a simple one, same as Amazon has the question "Was this review useful to you?" Y/N and then it displays "N persons have found this review helpful"

instead of helpful we could use "accurate".

And who knows even weight a review depending on the numbers of cotes it has.
And that itself will be open to abuse - you know some smart alec creates a dozen accounts and gives maximum cotes for his main account...
 
Our current weighting system is enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 14:06
Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

I've said this before, in some dark room full of virgins here in PA forums.Wouldnt be useful to have a system to rate reviews? a simple one, same as Amazon has the question "Was this review useful to you?" Y/N and then it displays "N persons have found this review helpful"instead of helpful we could use "accurate".And who knows even weight a review depending on the numbers of cotes it has.


Wow, you changed your Manning album's rating from 1* to 2* ? So - not so bad one? I rated it 2* as well...
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