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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:59
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


In reality, I doubt any of us are electable anyway.
I sure as hell am not.
"Tax is theft" will win many hearts but Pat will then say we need a private army, there should be no building codes and laws against flying a plane drunk and people will freak the hell out.
Rob's education idea is too much for the masses
Anton is too mysterious and llama, you will frighten people with your cane sword and talks of replacing jail with public flogging. LOL


I'm going to write a book on my flogging idea as soon as I am feeling energetic enough to undertake the research. I hate doing research...
I can hear the hate mail already. Big smile

Anyway, when I run for office I intend to go for something uncontested to get my foot in the door. Then let's see them try to stop me!
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:55
How much is it to hire Stephen Hawking?
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32566 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:52
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Plus there's the social aspect too.  School actually makes you who you are (not 100% obviously), to some degree.  The environment and people you grow up around do make a difference.  I just feel that if you're at home, you won't get the same social interaction.


It also allows for taunting and bullying.

The world isn't perfect.  It's controversial but I think sometimes people do grow as a person from bullying.  Not in all cases, obviously.  I don't like bullying or taunting either.

People shouldn't be coddled though.  We all need to meet undesirable people in our lives and we should do this as we're growing up.  You could turn 18, being a coddled teenager being home-schooled and met wonderful people whilst doing so.  Then you could end up on a rocky road and getting bullied in the workplace and not being able to handle it.

Great!  No necessary benefit- so you admit it's a wash and the government has no business forcing this on anyone?

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Besides, Rob, what are the parents supposed to do?  Quit work so they can stay at home to look after their stay-at-home children?

Or are you suggesting some sort of financial benefit for parents?


Good question.  I (ideally) think parents should be the #1 educators of their children- not employees of the state.  I think parents should be able to either educate their kids at home, or put their kids in the private schools of their choice.  Public schools funded by the government should not be an option.  Why does the government give tax breaks to parents?  Children are tax burdens.


Of course.  However, parents don't know everything.  They should teach their children to read and write and to learn maths, plus also teach them morals and everything else like that too.  However, if I was a parent, I wouldn't want to teach Science - your argument is probably that they shouldn't need to learn Science unless that's what they want to do but how will they know if they want to work in a Science-field, without firstly learning the basics? - for example.  I really do not know enough about such a vast subject.  I realise you'd still have tertiary schooling but how much can children take in by the time they're 10?


Learning science is quite important (as the scientific method, formulas, and the like are concerned- not indoctrination).

This is precisely where the private sector comes in and you can hire and a tutor (or tutors) to teach the subject(s) you would not want to teach.

You get to choose a tutor rather than depending on the state to educate your child.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:48
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Rob, have you read about the Free Schools idea being put about over here?  I'm just curious.


No, I am not familiar with that.


I don't really know the full details but I believe the idea is for the parents to run the school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_school_%28England%29
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:47
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well thank you Rob, and I'm surprised you weren't surprised I agree more or less with your idea. At least on paper.
I'd like to see the current system be reformed to actually be made about education, but barring that unlikely case...your idea is appealing.

And I wish I was 25. We all need to run for congress. Regardless of belief, a wave of total outsiders with crazy ideas would be good. I can arm wrestle with Pat over raising minimum wage and Rob will replace the lectern with a giant keg.


I have thought about running for office, but I just don't think I could handle the bureaucracy. I'd go insane. Maybe someday, though...

Anyway, I'm far to honest to ever make it anywhere in politics.


Yeah those are the 2 major problems...
Shame since the lot of us would provide one hell of a shake up. We'd have to wait a few years anyway to do this, Pat and I need to be at least 25 of course.

In reality, I doubt any of us are electable anyway.
I sure as hell am not.
"Tax is theft" will win many hearts but Pat will then say we need a private army, there should be no building codes and laws against flying a plane drunk and people will freak the hell out.
Rob's education idea is too much for the masses
Anton is too mysterious and llama, you will frighten people with your cane sword and talks of replacing jail with public flogging. LOL


Edited by JJLehto - December 03 2010 at 20:48
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:46
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Plus there's the social aspect too.  School actually makes you who you are (not 100% obviously), to some degree.  The environment and people you grow up around do make a difference.  I just feel that if you're at home, you won't get the same social interaction.


It also allows for taunting and bullying.

The world isn't perfect.  It's controversial but I think sometimes people do grow as a person from bullying.  Not in all cases, obviously.  I don't like bullying or taunting either.

People shouldn't be coddled though.  We all need to meet undesirable people in our lives and we should do this as we're growing up.  You could turn 18, being a coddled teenager being home-schooled and met wonderful people whilst doing so.  Then you could end up on a rocky road and getting bullied in the workplace and not being able to handle it.

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Besides, Rob, what are the parents supposed to do?  Quit work so they can stay at home to look after their stay-at-home children?

Or are you suggesting some sort of financial benefit for parents?


Good question.  I (ideally) think parents should be the #1 educators of their children- not employees of the state.  I think parents should be able to either educate their kids at home, or put their kids in the private schools of their choice.  Public schools funded by the government should not be an option.  Why does the government give tax breaks to parents?  Children are tax burdens.


Of course.  However, parents don't know everything.  They should teach their children to read and write and to learn maths, plus also teach them morals and everything else like that too.  However, if I was a parent, I wouldn't want to teach Science - your argument is probably that they shouldn't need to learn Science unless that's what they want to do but how will they know if they want to work in a Science-field, without firstly learning the basics? - for example.  I really do not know enough about such a vast subject.  I realise you'd still have tertiary schooling but how much can children take in by the time they're 10?
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32566 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:40
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Rob, have you read about the Free Schools idea being put about over here?  I'm just curious.


No, I am not familiar with that.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:40
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Oh yeah, I failed my on line economics class.
Others didn't so it is possible...but for me I have NO clue how one can learn that topic on your own and in such a loose environment. Cry


See, mine was the opposite problem. The online econ course I took was so easy as to be useless.


Yeah, I guess that's where it all depends.
My problem was one, its just a topic I struggled to do in that fashion (much better in a class) but also I had a terrible prof LOL
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Points: 32566 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:40
Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P



I'd wager that many of us didn't waste our time- we had many teachers who did that for us!

Haha. I had my share of time-wasting teachers but was lucky enough to have some great science, math and history teachers.

I have a question about your proposed education plan. If students more or less become independent after elementary school, would you still require some kind of civics course? Civics education has a ton of room to improve in this country, I think, but I would rather take what we have now than to have none at all.



I wouldn't require anything.  Learn what you need to know.  That's what I do.  It's amazing.
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Points: 512 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:38

I took an econ class in person taught by a replacement who didn't know what he was doing. I got an A in the class because it was so easy but I couldn't tell you I actually learned anything. 

So using econ as an example is just completely inconclusive. lol
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Points: 32566 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:38
Originally posted by James James wrote:



Plus there's the social aspect too.  School actually makes you who you are (not 100% obviously), to some degree.  The environment and people you grow up around do make a difference.  I just feel that if you're at home, you won't get the same social interaction.


It also allows for taunting and bullying.

Originally posted by James James wrote:



Besides, Rob, what are the parents supposed to do?  Quit work so they can stay at home to look after their stay-at-home children?

Or are you suggesting some sort of financial benefit for parents?


Good question.  I (ideally) think parents should be the #1 educators of their children- not employees of the state.  I think parents should be able to either educate their kids at home, or put their kids in the private schools of their choice.  Public schools funded by the government should not be an option.  Why does the government give tax breaks to parents?  Children are tax burdens.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:38
Rob, have you read about the Free Schools idea being put about over here?  I'm just curious.
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:37
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Oh yeah, I failed my on line economics class.
Others didn't so it is possible...but for me I have NO clue how one can learn that topic on your own and in such a loose environment. Cry


See, mine was the opposite problem. The online econ course I took was so easy as to be useless.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:35
Oh yeah, I failed my on line economics class.
Others didn't so it is possible...but for me I have NO clue how one can learn that topic on your own and in such a loose environment. Cry
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Points: 512 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:34
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P



I'd wager that many of us didn't waste our time- we had many teachers who did that for us!

Haha. I had my share of time-wasting teachers but was lucky enough to have some great science, math and history teachers.

I have a question about your proposed education plan. If students more or less become independent after elementary school, would you still require some kind of civics course? Civics education has a ton of room to improve in this country, I think, but I would rather take what we have now than to have none at all.
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:33
Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P

Edit: Also I am not a fan of online educations. I of course have learned a ton by surfing the internet (but I feel I am unusual in that way) but the several online courses I have taken were no good. This is just personal/anecdotal evidence so I won't argue my point that fiercely, but if given the choice between online or in-person courses... in-person courses are the best by far.



The online classes I have taken have also been largely useless, although I did learn calculus that way. When I started taking economics classes in person, the teachers were far less adept at explaining it than my online teacher. Like all things, I guess it just depends.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:33
And that's what is appealing about the idea James.
Who does want to support them?
If you're not motivated...then dropping the public education system wouln't do much damage to them (maybe some would become more motivated to learn?). Then they can start working their job/doing whatever with their life. It's cutting the middle man I guess.

Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P



Well you are quite lucky. Education wise, my high school was a total waste and I did go to a suburban school. LOL
I did have a few teachers/classes that were great, I'll admit.
The thing with his idea is, "AP classes" can still exist. As can those good teachers. And if someone wants to take them you could. Hell, someone could easily set up their own school, for parents who may not like the idea and their kids can go, (or do it online).
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:32
Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P



I didn't waste my time.  Besides, in year 10, we had the choice of what subjects to take (but English and Mathematics were compulsory).  It's just not everything I learnt was beneficial.

Plus there's the social aspect too.  School actually makes you who you are (not 100% obviously), to some degree.  The environment and people you grow up around do make a difference.  I just feel that if you're at home, you won't get the same social interaction.

Besides, Rob, what are the parents supposed to do?  Quit work so they can stay at home to look after their stay-at-home children?

Or are you suggesting some sort of financial benefit for parents?


Edited by James - December 03 2010 at 20:33
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32566 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:29
Originally posted by Kestrel Kestrel wrote:

I feel sorry for all of you who thought high school was a waste of time. I learned a ton through my AP classes and that forms the background of my college education. This was an inner-city school too; theoretically, the suburban schools should be even better.

I'm not saying the education system is fine as is, but that not everyone wasted their time in high school. :P



I'd wager that many of us didn't waste our time- we had many teachers who did that for us!
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:28
They won't necessarily become beggars.  They may actually succeed in life by being blaggers.  They'll scrape through life with the minimum of study.

But yes.  I don't want to support them either.
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