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Topic ClosedGreg Lake’s rant against bootlegs and piracy.

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richardh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2010 at 02:10
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I don't think anyone here would argue that bootlegging for profit is NOT stealing so Greg's basic premise seems sound but not even he could have eaten his way through the vast millions he earned while with ELP surely?
On a more realistic note, I also don't believe bootleggers would even consider pirating his solo material or concerts as viable (he has barely produced a demi semi quaver of decent music on his own after 1976)
What's interesting about ELP is the ploy they used to attempt to defeat the pirates by releasing the best audio quality bootlegs available as a legitimate boxed set (The Official Bootleg Series from the Manticore Vaults Volumes 1 - 3 in 2001)
Some of this material is decent sound quality and some is atrocious but putting the boot on the other foot - why should ELP fans pay top dollar for products that are below commercial release standard just so the trio can attempt to recoup some of the losses from the aforementioned pirates?

(That's like the cops selling us the moonshine they confiscated from the gangsters)
 
Yep lovely irony that.
 
There is also a little story recounted by Keith Emerson that Carl Palmer walked out of a record shop in Japan with a bunch of ELP bootlegs under his arm. Didn't pay for them (tight git apparently) and then some of them appeared on that aforementioned box set.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2010 at 01:00
I don't think anyone here would argue that bootlegging for profit is NOT stealing so Greg's basic premise seems sound but not even he could have eaten his way through the vast millions he earned while with ELP surely?
On a more realistic note, I also don't believe bootleggers would even consider pirating his solo material or concerts as viable (he has barely produced a demi semi quaver of decent music on his own after 1976)
What's interesting about ELP is the ploy they used to attempt to defeat the pirates by releasing the best audio quality bootlegs available as a legitimate boxed set (The Official Bootleg Series from the Manticore Vaults Volumes 1 - 3 in 2001)
Some of this material is decent sound quality and some is atrocious but putting the boot on the other foot - why should ELP fans pay top dollar for products that are below commercial release standard just so the trio can attempt to recoup some of the losses from the aforementioned pirates?

(That's like the cops selling us the moonshine they confiscated from the gangsters)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2010 at 00:33
Yeah he is really barking up the wrong tree going after concert recordings. Clearly Greg Lake is not a master of the google search.

And I don't know if he realizes how much money it would cost to track down and go after everyone who downloaded anything. He'd make more money on hypothetical record sales if he just ignored it really.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Yeah, donuts aren't cheap, gotta protect yourself from the lost revenue from sh*tty youtube uploads.
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:


And again, to anyone so inclined, please do bear in mind that it is easy these days for anyone to track and identify an individual computer by its unique ID number.
Ummm....The nerdier people may correct me here, but I'm pretty sure this makes no sense.

The way he said it is incorrect, he's probably talking about your IP Address. Which there are ways around, but if you are using those, chances are pirating musical performances isn't your interest so much as hacking.
He probably is talking about the IP address and he would be pretty wrong on that score since several people can share an IP address, so it does not mark out a PC as being unique. What does is the MAC address - this is how several people can share an IP address - the router/server holds the MAC addresses of every PC on the network and on an internal network the IP address is simply a label, all inter-PC communication is done via MAC address. The MAC address is permanent and fixed to a peice of hardware, unlike an IP address which is allocated by software.

MAC addresses can also be spoofed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:00
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

I was amazed to see on his website that Greg posted a lengthy and sometimes bitter rant against people taping his shows and sharing them. I can see his reasons behind it but theirs no need to call some of his fans ‘’intellectually challenged’’. He coldly declares that he ‘’will have no hesitation whatsoever in commencing legal proceedings against you for the recovery of our property or compensation for the loss plus any damages.’’ That’s some way to treat fans who just like a recording of the show they have attended. His patronizing tone has almost put me off his music. I know Robert Fripp is like that but I don’t remember him calling his fans ‘’intellectually challenged’’.

Here is the link

http://www.greglake.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1276278713/0

You will need to be a member to read it.

I will post the full text in the next comment.
LOL Well, he personally cracks me up anyway especially after my encounter with him at the Atlantic City Casinos. He did nothing but tell us how prog was nonsense. He was a real character that night. He flipped out on 2 promoters when we were on the second floor. His face was red and he threw his arms into the air yelling at them while customers stared at him trying to figure out if he was someone famous, or a staff worker. Later , after he had a few drinks, he told the old stories and laughed at the bar. I have to admit that when he screamed at those promoters, I almost busted out laughing. He told us that he was a Christian. I have no doubt that he is polite with people and basically a good person but I think maybe he has had enough with the music biz. As he walked the floor and was approached by the occasional fan, he rolled his eyes. He seems to dislike dealing with his public image. I can see him having that patronizing tone and his talk of legal proceedings......He is still funny to me thoughLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 18:54
Not to be confused with your MACDADDYHIP address. Tongue

Back to topic.  I respect the artists prerogative on this.  Besides with all the live DVDs that come out, it's kind of pointless to bootleg anyway.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 18:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Yeah, donuts aren't cheap, gotta protect yourself from the lost revenue from sh*tty youtube uploads.
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:


And again, to anyone so inclined, please do bear in mind that it is easy these days for anyone to track and identify an individual computer by its unique ID number.
Ummm....The nerdier people may correct me here, but I'm pretty sure this makes no sense.

The way he said it is incorrect, he's probably talking about your IP Address. Which there are ways around, but if you are using those, chances are pirating musical performances isn't your interest so much as hacking.
He probably is talking about the IP address and he would be pretty wrong on that score since several people can share an IP address, so it does not mark out a PC as being unique. What does is the MAC address - this is how several people can share an IP address - the router/server holds the MAC addresses of every PC on the network and on an internal network the IP address is simply a label, all inter-PC communication is done via MAC address. The MAC address is permanent and fixed to a peice of hardware, unlike an IP address which is allocated by software.


Geek






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 18:19
Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Yeah, donuts aren't cheap, gotta protect yourself from the lost revenue from sh*tty youtube uploads.
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:


And again, to anyone so inclined, please do bear in mind that it is easy these days for anyone to track and identify an individual computer by its unique ID number.
Ummm....The nerdier people may correct me here, but I'm pretty sure this makes no sense.

The way he said it is incorrect, he's probably talking about your IP Address. Which there are ways around, but if you are using those, chances are pirating musical performances isn't your interest so much as hacking.
He probably is talking about the IP address and he would be pretty wrong on that score since several people can share an IP address, so it does not mark out a PC as being unique. What does is the MAC address - this is how several people can share an IP address - the router/server holds the MAC addresses of every PC on the network and on an internal network the IP address is simply a label, all inter-PC communication is done via MAC address. The MAC address is permanent and fixed to a peice of hardware, unlike an IP address which is allocated by software.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:45
You know, whether he's right doesn't even matter. I think if I was a recording artist, I'd have to be fatalistic about this and just say "Well, people are going to do it. They just are. I have to deal with that."
 
But I wouldn't make statements like this because historically it turns the internet against you and the hardcore subsequently make a point of pirating your music, which then spreads into the general netizen domain.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:41
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

I went to a gallery; there was an Picasso exhibition. If  friend of mine took a photo of me with famous Picasso's painting, and if I publish that photo on Facebook, is that a crime?

Downloading loads of albums via torrents is one thing, but a crappy bootleg? Give me a break.




Clap

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:38
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

All I can picture is some nerdy kid in a basement downloading ELP when suddenly a big armadillo breaks through the wall.  "Looks like you're not a lucky man!"
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLClapClapClapClapClapClapClap
 
 
I have a word about this,
 
As far as i know ELP and Greg Lake have prevented many sharing music sites to share their Unnoficial Live Recordings, so those sites respect what Greg wishes, like Fripp Wishes and PT wishes, and many other bands that don't want that any unnoficial material are shared.
 
Do this going to stop poor sales or download concerts, official material, et. al.?  NO!  millions and i say millions of illegal and unnoficial material are still flows in the internet,  Greg have said that the author is the owner of the material  and he's right, but he can't prevent the misuses of that material, for example " i have a friend that request me  to lend a couple of cd's of ELP, do i have to warn him not to copy??, pleeeease is the first thing that usually done, and specially if my friend have a poor personal income, do we violate the copyright doing that?, NOOOO, because the Berna agreement, prevents that a person can do a copy of a work (book, music, etc.) for only purpose of personal use or research, many of us got a copy of the old vinyls with a cassette, now the technology allow us to have almost pristine identical copies of a cd, a dvd, etc.
 
The misuse starts when you have an income for selling copies of official material to the general public, now that's a felony and punishment have to be, but about the unnofficial material... it's more difficult to trace and any artist  that was taped in a show and discovers that many of his performances are now free distribute or shared  via internet or ordinary mail, how can them going to trace every single show on earth??
 
I think that one thing to prevent is like Pearl Jam or Gov't Mule do, tape their shows and offers to the general public and a very reasonable prize, i think that with that they cannot prevent the free sharing but at least can have some profit selling their shows.
 
just my 2 cents.
  




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:30
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

All I can picture is some nerdy kid in a basement downloading ELP when suddenly a big armadillo breaks through the wall.  "Looks like you're not a lucky man!"


Rofl

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:28
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

All I can picture is some nerdy kid in a basement downloading ELP when suddenly a big armadillo breaks through the wall.  "Looks like you're not a lucky man!"
The post of the month!LOL
''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:28
I went to a gallery; there was an Picasso exhibition. If  friend of mine took a photo of me with famous Picasso's painting, and if I publish that photo on Facebook, is that a crime?

Downloading loads of albums via torrents is one thing, but a crappy bootleg? Give me a break.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:19
All I deduce from this is that someone is not as well off as he used to be.
 
btw sheer genius PadraicClapLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:59
Originally posted by Kojak Kojak wrote:

I'm kinda inclined to agree with you, J-Man. I buy approximately 90% of what I find on youtube. For me, it's like a big advert, it's how I hunt down music and films, etc, that I like. Infact, if I can't check something out on youtube or similar and have no other way of checking it out, like from a friend, I probably won't buy it. There's just too much stuff out there, I can't buy it all, I need to test it first. 


Exactly my point. I can't tell you how many bands I've checked out thanks to MP3 or YouTube samples. Without those, I would have no idea what the band sounds like.

Now, for most people, this isn't the case with ELP - most people already know what ELP sounds like. However, online YouTube videos are just as equally good, except for different reason. Since ELP has a big following, it gives their fans a chance to check out their latest shows. There's really no downside to YouTube clips, from any perspective.

The reason why some bands aren't selling well is because of piracy of albums, not bootlegs. Keep in mind that you can't buy a bootleg directly from a band, thus the artist isn't losing any business from bootlegging. If anything, the artist is just gaining more exposure. The artist may be losing money from downloading of full-length albums. Blaming this on bootlegs is just a silly thing to do IMO.

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:52
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

All I can picture is some nerdy kid in a basement downloading ELP when suddenly a big armadillo breaks through the wall.  "Looks like you're not a lucky man!"


LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:43
Greg Lake isn't very smart these days, is he? Poor man...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:36
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

All I can picture is some nerdy kid in a basement downloading ELP when suddenly a big armadillo breaks through the wall.  "Looks like you're not a lucky man!"
HAHAHAHAHA!!! This made my day, too!!! Too funny. That visual is priceless.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2010 at 15:35
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Yeah, donuts aren't cheap, gotta protect yourself from the lost revenue from sh*tty youtube uploads.
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:


And again, to anyone so inclined, please do bear in mind that it is easy these days for anyone to track and identify an individual computer by its unique ID number.
Ummm....The nerdier people may correct me here, but I'm pretty sure this makes no sense.

The way he said it is incorrect, he's probably talking about your IP Address. Which there are ways around, but if you are using those, chances are pirating musical performances isn't your interest so much as hacking.
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