Pink Floyd Album Tournament, Round 3 - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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dedokras

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 04:25

Meddle for me

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fendermuzz View Drop Down

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 04:35

Meddle go on

Weirdamigo View Drop Down

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 04:39

Both outstanding albums that represent the "space-era" of Pink Floyd.

My vote goes to Meddle, nothing beats "Echoes" and "One of these days (I'm going to cut you into little pieces)"

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DeKay

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 13:20

Meddle, because "Echoes" beats "Atom Heart Mother"

MonsterMagnet View Drop Down

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 14:53

It may sound strange, but I always found that Meddle was sort of a simplified version of AHM.
So AHM it is

Logan

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 15:04

friso wrote:

Atom Heart Mother is by far my favorite Pink Floyd piece.

Mine too. It's interesting that band members have been so dismissive of the suite, but then they weren't pleased with what Ron Geesin (who co-composed it, orchestrated it...) did with it, nor pleased with their performances on it. I think Geesin (and Aldiss whom Geesin brought on for the project) did great work on it, and I think its Geesin's involvement that really elevates it for me over other Pink Floyd stuff (though I do like Ummagumma and earlier Floyd work, as well as Meddle, considerably. I'm not so big on later Floyd).

Some quotes from wikipedia:

Quotes

Atom Heart Mother is a good case, I think, for being thrown into the dustbin and never listened to by anyone ever again!... It was pretty kind of pompous, it wasn't really about anything.

- Roger Waters — Rock Over London Radio Station - 15 March 1985, for broadcast 7 April/14 April 1985.

What do you think of your early records like Atom Heart Mother and Ummagumma today?
I think both are pretty horrible. Well, the live disc of Ummagumma might be all right, but even that isn't recorded well.

- David Gilmour - Der Spiegel No. 23 - 5 June 1995

I didn't have anything, really, to do with the start of Atom Heart Mother, and when I asked them what it was about, they said they didn't know themselves. It's a conglomeration of pieces that weren't related, or didn't seem to be at the time. The picture isn't related either; in fact, it was an attempt to do a picture that was unrelated, consciously unrelated.

- Storm Thorgerson - Guitar World - February 1998

"[Atom Heart Mother] was a good idea but it was dreadful. I listened to that album recently: God, it's sh*t, possibly our lowest point artistically. Atom Heart Mother sounds like we didn’t have any idea between us, but we became much more prolific after it.”

- David Gilmour - Mojo Magazine - October 2001^[7]

"I think Atom Heart Mother was a good thing to have attempted, but I don't really think the attempt comes off that well,"

- David Gilmour - Rolling Stone - November 2001

'I wouldn't dream of performing anything that embarrassed me. If somebody said to me now: "Right...here's a million pounds, go out and play 'Atom Heart Mother'", I'd say: "You must be f**king joking...I'm not playing that rubbish!". 'Cos then I really would be embarrassed.'

- Roger Waters — interviewed by Richard Skinner - BBC Radio One - originally broadcast: Saturday 9 June 1984

I don't think Waters and Gilmour have very good taste, and the attaitude towards it seems kind of douchey to me. I've wondered if part of the hostility towards the suite was because it didn't end up really being their project, but apparently Pink Floyd liked it back in the early 70's and did it for a costly tour.

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yanch

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 15:46

Meddle.

The_Jester View Drop Down

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 18:17

Atom Heart Mother is really one of the greatest Pink Floyd album only with the suite.

Lozlan

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 19:12

Atom Heart Mother. I recently rediscovered this album thanks to you fine folk. It's AMAZING.

As for Meddle...I really love every Floyd release but Meddle. I lurve Echoes, of course, and One Of These Days, but everything in between in just 'meh' for me. I'm especially unenthused about Fearless: I think the random singing throws me off what would otherwise be a decent, if somewhat unremarkable, song.

Anyhoo, AHM. Not a song on there I'm not currently passionate about.

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 19:22

Logan wrote:

friso wrote:

Atom Heart Mother is by far my favorite Pink Floyd piece.

Quotes

Atom Heart Mother is a good case, I think, for being thrown into the dustbin and never listened to by anyone ever again!... It was pretty kind of pompous, it wasn't really about anything.

- Roger Waters — Rock Over London Radio Station - 15 March 1985, for broadcast 7 April/14 April 1985.

What do you think of your early records like Atom Heart Mother and Ummagumma today?
I think both are pretty horrible. Well, the live disc of Ummagumma might be all right, but even that isn't recorded well.

- David Gilmour - Der Spiegel No. 23 - 5 June 1995

I didn't have anything, really, to do with the start of Atom Heart Mother, and when I asked them what it was about, they said they didn't know themselves. It's a conglomeration of pieces that weren't related, or didn't seem to be at the time. The picture isn't related either; in fact, it was an attempt to do a picture that was unrelated, consciously unrelated.

- Storm Thorgerson - Guitar World - February 1998

"[Atom Heart Mother] was a good idea but it was dreadful. I listened to that album recently: God, it's sh*t, possibly our lowest point artistically. Atom Heart Mother sounds like we didn’t have any idea between us, but we became much more prolific after it.”

- David Gilmour - Mojo Magazine - October 2001^[7]

"I think Atom Heart Mother was a good thing to have attempted, but I don't really think the attempt comes off that well,"

- David Gilmour - Rolling Stone - November 2001

'I wouldn't dream of performing anything that embarrassed me. If somebody said to me now: "Right...here's a million pounds, go out and play 'Atom Heart Mother'", I'd say: "You must be f**king joking...I'm not playing that rubbish!". 'Cos then I really would be embarrassed.'

- Roger Waters — interviewed by Richard Skinner - BBC Radio One - originally broadcast: Saturday 9 June 1984

Totally agree Greg...those two don't have a clue about their own early work and its impact, which is astonishing. I've seen Roger diss other early work like Piper too. The fact that they are ashamed at some of the youthful naivity, excesses, or tech problems is probably about ego, but their fans are wiser. Who cares that AHM is not "about anything." It doesn't have to be! Music is emotion too, whether Rog writes a diatribe to go with it or not.

And David, good lord. He's prouder of some of his 80s slop than a classic like AHM? No Dave, your lowest point is called Momentary Lapse or About Face, brother.

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 21:17

I find it incredibly greedy to enjoy an artist's work AND demand that they enjoy it as well. There's nothing "douchey" about sl*gging off your own work if you think it's terrible, because it's YOUR WORK, and I think that saying otherwise indicates something of an entitlement complex.

Also, this isn't nearly as close as I thought it was going to be.

Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.

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Posted: October 20 2010 at 21:25

Oh i don't "demand" they enjoy it. I just think they're dead wrong that it sucks. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with them....when they are so outspoken about the work, they invite feedback from fans. And I'm sure they don't mind that fans discuss this stuff, it sells more albums for them Smile

Logan

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 00:08

Chris, I don't demand that they enjoy it either (at least Geesin enjoys it). If any musician wants to sl*g their contributions to a project, more power to them. I used the term douchey because of the cleansing properties of a douche (washing oneself of...). In this case, though, and I was trying to highlight the point, it's not just a matter of being very dismissive of one's own work, it's about dismissing other people's work. That was rather the crux of my post.

Roger Waters had collaborated with Ron Geesin before (on Music From the Body), and Waters had this big idea for orchestra that they didn't know how to execute, so the composer/ arranger Geesin was called in. They gave him a backing track to work from while they went on tour and asked him to arrange it for orchestra and put it together. Geesin ended up doing far more and added new melodies, and really shaped it. He called on others to work on it (most notably John Aldiss for choral work and he deserves credit), and in the end I think it became very much a Geesin work (a collaboration, but one heavily indebted to Geesin). Still, it was released, they had the band's name put on it, and they toured with it.

So it's not just about Waters and Gilmour sl*gging their own work, they're calling the work of another rubbish. They've also been dismissive of Syd Barrett's work. I have wondered if it is an ego thing. Gilmour, despite having been dismissive of Atom Heart Mother for mnay years -- he had called it "absolute crap” -- played guitar for it when Ron Geesin revived it in 2008, complete with orchestra and chorals.

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Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 02:41

This approach is amusing but ultimately heavily flawed

Such a classic prog (and in mlany ways proggier than Meddle) album as AHM tossed out on the first round

, when it would most likely have trounced Piper, Saucerful, More and Umma......

and if we avid having to pit WYWH against DSOTM, because of OBC, we won't avoid pitting WYWH against Animals

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

40footwolf View Drop Down

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 03:03

Sean Trane wrote:

This approach is amusing but ultimately heavily flawed

Such a classic prog (and in mlany ways proggier than Meddle) album as AHM tossed out on the first round

, when it would most likely have trounced Piper, Saucerful, More and Umma......

and if we avid having to pit WYWH against DSOTM, because of OBC, we won't avoid pitting WYWH against Animals

I guess I didn't spend a whole lot of time devising a science for my Pink Floyd album tournament.

Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 06:08

Logan wrote:

Chris, I don't demand that they enjoy it either (at least Geesin enjoys it). If any musician wants to sl*g their contributions to a project, more power to them. I used the term douchey because of the cleansing properties of a douche (washing oneself of...). In this case, though, and I was trying to highlight the point, it's not just a matter of being very dismissive of one's own work, it's about dismissing other people's work. That was rather the crux of my post.

Roger Waters had collaborated with Ron Geesin before (on Music From the Body), and Waters had this big idea for orchestra that they didn't know how to execute, so the composer/ arranger Geesin was called in. They gave him a backing track to work from while they went on tour and asked him to arrange it for orchestra and put it together. Geesin ended up doing far more and added new melodies, and really shaped it. He called on others to work on it (most notably John Aldiss for choral work and he deserves credit), and in the end I think it became very much a Geesin work (a collaboration, but one heavily indebted to Geesin). Still, it was released, they had the band's name put on it, and they toured with it.

So it's not just about Waters and Gilmour sl*gging their own work, they're calling the work of another rubbish. They've also been dismissive of Syd Barrett's work. I have wondered if it is an ego thing. Gilmour, despite having been dismissive of Atom Heart Mother for mnay years -- he had called it "absolute crap” -- played guitar for it when Ron Geesin revived it in 2008, complete with orchestra and chorals.

I think one of the reasons for them being so dismissive of AHM, is the fact that it essentially was Ron Geesin who was the brains behind the whole thing. Both Waters and Gilmour were sonic control freaks, and here they are practically out of the equation. I love PF to pieces, but I am not too keen on artists being dismissive of their own output, especially when it involves another great musician, who put his blood, sweat and tears into that specific record. What Ron Geesin did was a stroke absolute genius, and part of me still thinks that they secretly are a bit jealous of him, for doing something that was beyond them at the time. They almost lost control.
You can probably guess what I picked Big smile

Just because Echoes sits on Meddle like a giant anchovy on your pizza, and it´s my fave PF song - I think AHT blows it out of the water. Alans psychedelic breakfast is just amazing too.
BTW - Ron Geesin also put out a brilliant solo record called As he Stands. Pretty weird but very recommendable.

Logan

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 11:45

Guldbamsen wrote:

That's what I think. And would add that I think that Geesin's work for Pink Floyd had a significant effect on later Floyd music. I find Waters/ Gilmour's attitudes very disrespectful and disheartening -- very ungracious. Had Waters/ Gilmour been able to pull that off, I'm sure they would have been very proud of it. I think they owe Geesin a debt of gratitude and due credit. I once read an interview with Geesin about his working with Waters, and any possible future collaborations, and he was enthusiastic saying he thought they worked really well together and could release killer material, but didn't expect it to happen. I also like As He Stands very much; I evaluated it for the Eclectic team not that long ago.

Noticing your Clockwork Orange avatar, great film, I expect you know that the Atom Heart Mother album appears in a record store scene and that Kubrick asked Pink Floyd for permission to feature it in that scene (it appears above the soundtrack to 2001 A space Odyssey). And Kubrick asked if he could use Atom Heart Mother in his Clockwork Orange soundtrack, but Pink Floyd turned him down due to Kubrick's request for unlimited license in choosing what portions or edits of the suite he used. For any who don't know, there a youtube clip that a fan put together:

Apparently, Waters later talked to Kubrick about using a piece from 2001 A Space Odyssey for one of his own albums. Calling music that Kubrick was interested in using rubbish is another big no-no in my books (especially for as great a film as Clockwork Orange). If I weren't as pacifistic as I am, it might almost make me, with my droogs, want to resort to a bit of ultra-violence.

And Jim, good post too.

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 12:01

Logan wrote:

Guldbamsen wrote:

Kubrick has always been my favourite director, and I see him very much in the same sort of light as my most beloved progressive artists - because of their fantastic way of creating images beyond what you actually see or hear.
I was aware of ATH being in the record store scene, which I always thought was funny, but that they actually turned of the most original and innovative film makers down, because (again) it would mean letting go of the control, - that´s completely new to me. Thanks for the info, that was cool.
Please don´t resolve to ultra violence, or I´d might be forced to come over there and strap you down, fill you up with mind-sauce and show you pictures you can´t escape from Evil Smile

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 18:20

Meddle was more consistent, but AHM is good too. Personally, I don't think Floyd is able to recognize a good record, even if it's one of their own.

He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!

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Posted: October 21 2010 at 19:01

I prefer Meddle by a wide margin, but without Atom Heart Mother there would have been no Meddle. Plus, I really like Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast, absolutely love the last part.

Poll Question: Which of these two Pink Floyd albums is the best?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Atom Heart Mother	33	[24.09%]
Meddle	104	[75.91%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted