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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 'Magic Bus' passes
    Posted: October 16 2010 at 23:54
Musicians aged between 60 and 70 years old in the mainstream rock field like Keith Richards, Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, Robert Plant, Ritchie Blackmore, David Bowie, Pete Townshend and Ray Davies continue to ply their trade using pretty much the same stylistic sources they exploited from the beginning i.e. their output is part of a long haul refining process but the ingredients remain conservatively familiar (blues, RnB, rock, folk and other popular music styles) That's an observation, not a criticism OK?

Well What can a wealthy middle aged man do, cep't sing for a rock'n roll band?

Watching men who qualify for 'magic' bus passes strutting around creakily on stage reliving a vanished youth is hardly a spectator sport yet we can't really blame the crusty adolescents for seeking to exploit a very lucrative means to earn a living/top up their pension fund.

Keith Emerson is 66, Roger waters is 67, Dave Greenslade is 67, Arthur Brown is 68, Robert Fripp is 64 and Rick Wakeman is the toddler of the group at just 61 years old. We could distinguish these critters as being representative of the 1st generation proggers.

So, can those musicians we profess to love dearly, preserve their dignity into middle age and beyond by continuing to 'play the rock game' and the sort of music they did at 30?

For me, I feel that both Emerson and Wakeman are more than capable of pursuing careers in the classical realm (or further explore the Rock/Orchestra hybrid - but ditch the codpiece flame-throwers first fellasWink)
Kudos to Fripp, he has never 'played the rock game' - which is why he is sedentary on stage. Arthur Brown became a qualified 'music therapist' in to 80's I think but his output since has been pretty dire. Both Emerson and Greenslade have scored for animation/film work etc but I've always wondered why such talented individuals as the 1st gen proggers failed to develop new avenues for exploration from a genre they themselves moulded to its peak circa 1974. What sort of music is a 60 year old Progressive Rock musician expected to make?

Please post examples of work by ageing proggers that you feel reflect the maturity we would expect of an artist well past the official expiry date of 'perpetual adolescence'



Edited by ExittheLemming - October 17 2010 at 00:26
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TODDLER View Drop Down
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2010 at 01:13

"Everybody got the right to speak their mind so, don't shoot me for saying mine". Those on the original rock list that you compiled seem to re-hash a lot that was done before with modern approach. I'm not a big fan of it. The 60 year old proggies would be a bit more interesting if they stuck to new musical inventions....for example....Keith Emerson's Changing States had all the usual musical influences but, it remained in my mind to be fresh because the idea of using his musical influences of his past and pushing for something new,...which meant a disconnecting of ELP was what made it interesting. It contains a few pop songs but, just the idea of him going off and doing something new was enough for me. I like when 60 year old proggers release an album of fresh material as opposed to re-connecting with their past. Past members, mini tours, etc......like Emerson and Lake for example.


David Greenslade released a cd in association with Terry Prachett. Maybe he was still in his 50's then but, it's the kind of futuristic direction I like to see Greenslade going in. Rod Argent could release a keyboard album of Progressive Rock instrumental pieces and truly expand upon what he wrote previously. Instead he tours with The Zombies and releases a Classical cd.....which is fine however, he has talent to come up with original progressive rock ideas that maybe do not derive from the band Argent or even others of the genre.

If some of the artists you mentioned followed the path that many jazz/fusion writers often do, then it would be more pleasing to me personally. For example, the first day I heard "The Heart Of Things" by John McLaughlin. I'm like a little kid with this stuff. I stood in the kitchen and actually thought ..."That SOB! He took every one of his influences and expanded further on guitar and composition. On this cd, he plays a style more in the vain of maybe Pat Metheny. For me, it was a completely different McLaughlin. A more expanded one in the universal sense. Metheny may not even be a good comparision as it's really just McLaughlin expanding. A different lifetime than Mahavishnu or Extrapolation. The album actually has a flow like the band Passport but, without electronics. He just blew me away and I thought....more progressive rock masters should follow this path and express a new identity. Their identity connected with their reputation will socially rule in most cases but, these guys have the ability to go beyond all of that. They have made attempts in later years but, don't seem to stick with it. Emerson and Lake for me personally is not much about expanding but more about re-hashing the past. It's wonderful for younger people who have yet to see Keith or Greg in any format but, for example, I would rather see Greg Lake do a folk/prog album or Emerson write new instrumental ideas that are maybe influenced from different musical cultual backgrounds but display him expanding universally as a writer. Just in the same way that McLaughlin did.

Chris Squire released a solo effort based on choir music. I have yet to hear it. I know that he did sing in the church choir as a boy and maybe the music is interesting from that perspective. Even though he persists with a new YES band, at least he tried with a new musical departure of some sort. I would prefer seeing our prog greats tour off a new album and not continue to vamp the same identity role they did in the 70's. It should be a situation where an older artist has recorded a new album and is touring off that album and with no questions asked. No hecklers asking for older material. Like "Hey Keith!"...."while your at it, how about whipping out some excerpts from Tarkus?" They should be taken more seriously and widely excepted in the sense that the fans are at the show just to hear material from the new album and not caring so much about material from their past. It doesn't seem to happen that often. I have not witnessed fans of McLaughlin screaming for "Birds of Fire" (although I could be wrong), it seems the fans except his new contributions by buying the release a few weeks before his show, enjoying it, and longing to see it performed live. There should also be a little less of father and son tours and more of artists touring with new material.
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2010 at 01:38
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

"Everybody got the right to speak their mind so, don't shoot me for saying mine". Those on the original rock list that you compiled seem to re-hash a lot that was done before with modern approach. I'm not a big fan of it. The 60 year old proggies would be a bit more interesting if they stuck to new musical inventions....for example....Keith Emerson's Changing States had all the usual musical influences but, it remained in my mind to be fresh because the idea of using his musical influences of his past and pushing for something new,...which meant a disconnecting of ELP was what made it interesting. It contains a few pop songs but, just the idea of him going off and doing something new was enough for me. I like when 60 year old proggers release an album of fresh material as opposed to re-connecting with their past. Past members, mini tours, etc......like Emerson and Lake for example.


David Greenslade released a cd in association with Terry Prachett. Maybe he was still in his 50's then but, it's the kind of futuristic direction I like to see Greenslade going in. Rod Argent could release a keyboard album of Progressive Rock instrumental pieces and truly expand upon what he wrote previously. Instead he tours with The Zombies and releases a Classical cd.....which is fine however, he has talent to come up with original progressive rock ideas that maybe do not derive from the band Argent or even others of the genre.

If some of the artists you mentioned followed the path that many jazz/fusion writers often do, then it would be more pleasing to me personally. For example, the first day I heard "The Heart Of Things" by John McLaughlin. I'm like a little kid with this stuff. I stood in the kitchen and actually thought ..."That SOB! He took every one of his influences and expanded further on guitar and composition. On this cd, he plays a style more in the vain of maybe Pat Metheny. For me, it was a completely different McLaughlin. A more expanded one in the universal sense. Metheny may not even be a good comparision as it's really just McLaughlin expanding. A different lifetime than Mahavishnu or Extrapolation. The album actually has a flow like the band Passport but, without electronics. He just blew me away and I thought....more progressive rock masters should follow this path and express a new identity. Their identity connected with their reputation will socially rule in most cases but, these guys have the ability to go beyond all of that. They have made attempts in later years but, don't seem to stick with it. Emerson and Lake for me personally is not much about expanding but more about re-hashing the past. It's wonderful for younger people who have yet to see Keith or Greg in any format but, for example, I would rather see Greg Lake do a folk/prog album or Emerson write new instrumental ideas that are maybe influenced from different musical cultual backgrounds but display him expanding universally as a writer. Just in the same way that McLaughlin did.

Chris Squire released a solo effort based on choir music. I have yet to hear it. I know that he did sing in the church choir as a boy and maybe the music is interesting from that perspective. Even though he persists with a new YES band, at least he tried with a new musical departure of some sort. I would prefer seeing our prog greats tour off a new album and not continue to vamp the same identity role they did in the 70's. It should be a situation where an older artist has recorded a new album and is touring off that album and with no questions asked. No hecklers asking for older material. Like "Hey Keith!"...."while your at it, how about whipping out some excerpts from Tarkus?" They should be taken more seriously and widely excepted in the sense that the fans are at the show just to hear material from the new album and not caring so much about material from their past. It doesn't seem to happen that often. I have not witnessed fans of McLaughlin screaming for "Birds of Fire" (although I could be wrong), it seems the fans except his new contributions by buying the release a few weeks before his show, enjoying it, and longing to see it performed live. There should also be a little less of father and son tours and more of artists touring with new material.


Good post certainly. The emboldened part is what I too would like to see our 1st gen proggers emulate
(I haven't heard the McLaughlin album you cite but yes, expanding on what they created so originally before and assimilating new influences heard in the interim)
Everyone has to pay the rent after all and maybe such a wish is tantamount to commercial suicide in the current musical climate? (but most of these guys I mentioned don't need the cash I suspect)
Even something as competent and worthy as Emerson's album with Marc Bonilla in 2008 is tantamount to a brilliant modern composer slumming it in some Rock he could play in his sleep. It must be difficult for these guys when they approach record companies with music to record:

This is my adaptation of a Ginastera piece scored for rock ensemble

Yeah, great Keith, when do you get the knives out and start spinning on the piano exactly?
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toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2010 at 02:41
Mike Ratledge from Soft Machine is regarded as the best classical music composer in the UK now. I believe he works with BBC and the other big broadcasters. His interview in # 10 of Classic Rock Presents Prog was excellent and so is Beppe Crovella's tribute album to Mike Ratledge.  
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2010 at 03:14
I only own one Soft Machine album so am not familiar with his work but he certainly has prospered since he left the band e.g film scores, theatre work, commercials etc

What fully orchestral works or classical music has he composed though? (and what's it like?)
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lucas View Drop Down
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2010 at 05:58
^
I was aware of Karl Jenkins having turned to a "classical music" composer but Mike Ratledge ?
 
Karl Jenkins :
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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