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Mellotron Storm 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
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Points: 13505
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 Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:57 |
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I'm not sure how you can prove that "objectively" YES are better than GENESIS. I prefer GENESIS melancholic sound and vocals much more,but that's just my taste in music. I also think YES were brilliant by the way.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
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Points: 6797
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:00 |
 thehallway wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
thehallway wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I could be wrong here, but from what I recall it seems to usually work out that in a Yes vs Genesis poll, Genesis prevails, while if you compare any specific albums (of comparable ratings) or any specific songs (of comparable importance), Yes prevails. |
Absolutely spot on, unfortunately.
Some people have issues with the personalities of Yessers, or hate Jon Anderson's voice (I've heard "emotionless" used so often, and I really don't understand that accusation).
Some people also use quality of melodies as an excuse for Genesis having worse musicians and less complex music, at the same time putting Yes in the "pretentious" category with ELP and the rest, just because they win in every field.
I'm not saying people who prefer Genesis are lying! Just that they will win because of personal reasons. Maybe they seem like a better band, but the MUSIC is usually inferior, as Epignosis pointed out.
Objectively, Yes have the edge (and Genesis are not even close to the edge....)  . |
So I should decide on other than personal reasons?
Genesis (Or any other band) win because more people prefer their music ? |
By no means was I advocating that people shouldn't vote in a personal way (I did!).
I was just expanding on the speculation that perhaps if there was some way of mesuring attributes such as virtuosity, quality and strength of harmony etc etc, Genesis would win by being a more progressive band.
Genesis WILL win because of personal reasons, and that's okay, but as I said, objectively, Yes have the edge.
And yes, more people (on this site) prefer Genesis, and numbers are the only ingredient for the outcome of a poll. |
There is no way of measuring these atributes as you say. So I could quite easily doctor your post ^
Edited by akamaisondufromage - September 15 2010 at 15:02
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Help me I'm falling!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:07 |
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!).
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: May 16 2009
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:23 |
thehallway wrote:
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!). |
I would say if it was Mozart's intention to make sing along pop music for young kids to enjoy then he failed miserably and Hannah would be much better than Mozart. They are not comparable.
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Help me I'm falling!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:29 |
I wasn't comparing their intentions, rather their actual output, and in a musical sense, regardless of genre.
But in any case, Yes and Genesis are in the same genre, sub-genre, and are two of the most comparable bands in existence.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:38 |
thehallway wrote:
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!). |
You don't know Hannah Montana fans then! 
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: May 16 2009
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:40 |
thehallway wrote:
I wasn't comparing their intentions, rather their actual output, and in a musical sense, regardless of genre.
But in any case, Yes and Genesis are in the same genre, sub-genre, and are two of the most comparable bands in existence. |
I know. I was saying you can't compare the two. In terms of ouput, musical sense whatever.
You can compare Genesis and Yes of course but I don't think it can be in any way objective. They are both full of great musicians and it is this ability that gives them the freedom of expression to produce great records - I just prefer Genesis.
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Help me I'm falling!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:14 |
Maybe I'm being absolutist.
If you strip down the intentions, the relations, the marketing, the production, the surrounding atmosphere and everything else before and after music, then what you are left with, can be compared objectively. Except it is impossible to remove these factors, the personal element, and furthermore impossible to measure quality without including anything remotely describable as a viewpoint. So to even attempt it is apparently futile (for now), but I hope my theory has been understood.
Music is a science(?) And science involves only logic. With the human element removed, I still think Yes would have more success in music, but they wouldn't even be a band then. Just a more complicated idea. Anyway I'm being overly philisophical and getting nowhere.
One day music will be a factual, One day...! It will lose all that it's worth but at least then I'l be right.........
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
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Points: 28772
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:18 |
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Yes Can do it!
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:18 |
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Two more yes for a tie. Come on...
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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GY!BE
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 538
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:28 |
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Yesssss
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:30 |
Genesis has made some of my favorite songs, but Yes is the pinnacle of progressive rock, IMO.
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Beauty will save the world.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:31 |
Well, with my vote for Yes it's a tie again 
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Dondaļ
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 01 2009
Location: Kobaļa
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:32 |
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EXECO!!
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GY!BE
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 538
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:35 |
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who's gonna break the equality?
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DisgruntledPorcupine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:39 |
thehallway wrote:
Genesis WILL win because of personal reasons, and that's okay, but as I said, objectively, Yes have the edge.
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b4usleep
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 21 2009
Location: Istanbul
Status: Offline
Points: 620
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:44 |
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one of them most probably will win the tourney
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Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.
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Deleuze
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2010
Location: Qc
Status: Offline
Points: 193
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:52 |
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this is kinda intense, didn't vote...too hard for me
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Lark the Starless
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1902
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 19:09 |
I love them both.
But Genesis will always be my favorite 
This would have made for a great final.
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 19:16 |
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Genesis. Which I never would have voted for a couple of years ago.
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Battle of the Prog Bands R3D1: Genesis vs. Yes
