Is it okey for state officials to recive gifts

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   there have been some realy heated news, tabloids, political dabats, bloggs, social debats, and so on regarding a case which have lowerd the respect for some of Norways ministers the last two weeks, 

the case goes like this, 3-4 of our top ranked ministers, have been received gifts for their jobbs, national and international affairs or buisness, like our defence minister and foreign minister have receivd expencive handmade carpets in Afganistan, gold-watches, for many thousend kroners, and that seems to have created a blow to the govourment (not severe) but some ministers have lost some of their crediabilaty. 

The speculation is that this gifts and valuables, are from money which are earnd thorugh coruption and other dirty buisness, and that also gifts have not been registered in the tariff archives, for Inmport (which is illeagal for people travelling over the borders) (it depends on how much and how valueabel your items are).

their is by the way quite rude not to accept gifts on forrign affairs and travels, to sign deals and vissit other parts of the world (and every country have their own hospitality codes), which for most Norwegian who still have some problems with etiquette espcially regarding soisial classes (which you can see trencend throug our local media who cover this case) don't spot. 

But that is not the case for our ministers, but it is inngraned in our mentality to be honoust about wealth and how you recievd it, Norwegians often are quite demanding on their politicians to show all their cards and don't come with hidden agendas, and equality is a social norm, if people wave their tails to high the public will shoot it down so to speak...

other Norwegians might highlight this better then me but it is an interesting case i think

Edited by aginor - September 13 2010 at 17:46

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Icarium Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055	Topic: Is it okey for state officials to recive gifts Posted: September 13 2010 at 17:24
	there have been some realy heated news, tabloids, political dabats, bloggs, social debats, and so on regarding a case which have lowerd the respect for some of Norways ministers the last two weeks, the case goes like this, 3-4 of our top ranked ministers, have been received gifts for their jobbs, national and international affairs or buisness, like our defence minister and foreign minister have receivd expencive handmade carpets in Afganistan, gold-watches, for many thousend kroners, and that seems to have created a blow to the govourment (not severe) but some ministers have lost some of their crediabilaty. The speculation is that this gifts and valuables, are from money which are earnd thorugh coruption and other dirty buisness, and that also gifts have not been registered in the tariff archives, for Inmport (which is illeagal for people travelling over the borders) (it depends on how much and how valueabel your items are). their is by the way quite rude not to accept gifts on forrign affairs and travels, to sign deals and vissit other parts of the world (and every country have their own hospitality codes), which for most Norwegian who still have some problems with etiquette espcially regarding soisial classes (which you can see trencend throug our local media who cover this case) don't spot. But that is not the case for our ministers, but it is inngraned in our mentality to be honoust about wealth and how you recievd it, Norwegians often are quite demanding on their politicians to show all their cards and don't come with hidden agendas, and equality is a social norm, if people wave their tails to high the public will shoot it down so to speak... other Norwegians might highlight this better then me but it is an interesting case i think Edited by aginor - September 13 2010 at 17:46


Slartibartfast Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630	Posted: September 13 2010 at 17:29
	Only if they are shellacked cow turds. (My Dad was given one many years ago as a joke.)
	Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Equality 7-2521 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784	Posted: September 13 2010 at 17:31
	I see no problem with it intrinsically. Why not leave it up to voters to decide if the gifts the officials are receiving are unscrupulous?
	"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Icarium Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055	Posted: September 13 2010 at 17:42
	Yeah me to, as a voter I trust my officeals/ministers to know what codes are to be broken and those that you should follow, and receiving gifts on forrign travels like in Middle East, China, or US or annywere it is an unwritten rule (norm) that gifts are shared, and if you as a country are honourd then it is logical to have spend some money on the gift (not your childs sloppy drawings, which is nice though not appropriate) but persian carpets, rolexes, or other nice stuff but under certian price classes. some place between 800$ -1100$ or lower . It depends which culture your vissiting, in Japan (ive heard) to share gifts is important, also in Iran, Saudi-Arabia, and other Middle eastern cultures


Slartibartfast Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630	Posted: September 13 2010 at 18:14
	Well, if I had the money to give these guys "gifts" in exchange for favors I'd be all in for of it. For the rest of us the favors result in us being screwed over. Sounds like a plan to me. Little diplomatic things are a different matter. Edited by Slartibartfast - September 13 2010 at 18:18
	Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Equality 7-2521 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784	Posted: September 13 2010 at 19:34
	If you think so then don't vote for them when they receive the gifts.
	"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Slartibartfast Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630	Posted: September 13 2010 at 21:11
	I'm thinking it's totally OK as long as they immediately get punched in the face.
	Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

jampa17 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802	Posted: September 14 2010 at 10:55
	In my country they all recieved gifts all the time for whatever reason. I think you don't need to think too much when is part of just "diplomacy" and when is something to try to make deals under the table. I think the difference is that in your system there's no that much corruption as in my Country. And the vote is not a difference because here they never win two elections, but all the new guys will do the same dark hide deals... I don't think the vote method is enough, at least in my country... Oh, and I think it's OK to recieve gifts. They are representing a Country so that diplomacy is good for the international relations. The problem is when they recieved expensive cars, or watches or something that is exclusive for the person. I know that most of the gifts are traditional art things, and that should belong to the office and not the person. But it depends on each case I guess, when there are interests behind those gifts and when the people who recieved it manipulate their votes or influences to make a benefit. I'm not sure... Edited by jampa17 - September 14 2010 at 11:02
	Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.

Icarium Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055	Posted: September 14 2010 at 11:39
	well, lets take our foreigne minister; he recievd 3-4 afghan or persian carpets (quite sofisticated at that), one of the carpets were taxed close to 250-340$ (around 4-5000 kroners), the rest he estimated that the three other carpets did lie around the same valuemark, so he thought he did not need to taxate them. that is where the ministers mistake was made (he got to shure of himself and thought he had the right to estimate the taxes without checking in with the authorities, he overlooked the warning sings that as a state official every valuable you bring over the borders must be taxated, since it is not you who have receved th gift but your department or upp on bigger scale your country). the media reacted beocuse he took it too privat use, without telling national authority (not even the primemenister if i'm right), or getting all the facts and valuable checked...


jampa17 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2009 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 6802	Posted: September 14 2010 at 11:51
	Oh... I see... I think what he did was something ilegal, then he most be accused and processed through the law. I imagine that there are laws against ilegal trades through the borders, so he, as any other citizen, should be processed for that. In my country most of the high minister and others has a priviledge of "pre-judge", it's kind a shield to avoid them to be accused or processed. It makes it tough to punish them, so I don't know if your system alouds to acuse him and make everything legal...
	Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.

Icarium Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055	Posted: September 14 2010 at 12:03
	^ if it's one thing anyone who believes thay can ride on a high horse in Norway well they are worng , then you have all the major new-papers, TV-journalists, internett bloggers and facebook campaigns to prove you wrong, but one obsticale is that our foreigen minister is actualy realy good, (and is my first choice to be our next prime minister or even more a great candidate as ether FN-genera secreteriate or NATO-ditto,) he is a realy good politician who rarely steps wrong (so it is realy sad that he have taken this dumb chanse). and to qoute Wilson Fisk "the Kingpin" in Daredevil the movie, "to much pride can kill a man", well not that literate Wise men sais that you should not ride to high or to faar on your own succes, it is easy to overlook mistakes when they are few and far between. small mistakes by powerfull men/women can be lethal to those who are you closest, (from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows, when discussing Dumbledores small but devestating mistakes, or things he overlooked becouse it did not seem that sever for him to be taken serioucly, which things made just the probelms Harry had then to become even worse) Edited by aginor - September 14 2010 at 12:10