"5 star" albums and masterpiece.

Its true. Everyone define ART base on own opinion. Many times this definition go to other side far from main mean of ART. In my country philosophers and intellectuals still fight about Modernity !!! Many of them dont like modernity and they think West world forced that to people who have Oil or Gas. They call that " Cultural Attack"!!!!  They focus to ART and they MAKE new definition for ART. This definition is very fanatic and they mix religion and nationalism to resist an modernity attack!!!

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I sure hope not.  Good reviewers should learn and know the prog history and be aware of which albums were groundbreaking in their day and why.  If we are simply to write off the past accomplishments of bands because they sound "dated" now, and if just roll along with the idea that the latest greatest is all that matters, then we're not much different from the mindless purveyors of pop culture/music in the mainstream media.  I'm not bashing new music, there is a ton of great new stuff and you'll see me write about it.  But as I said, good reviewers will learn about great albums from all periods, learn why they were historically revered, and at least consider those things when reviewing.  Nothing makes me stop paying attention to a reviewer faster than when I detect a dislike for "old" albums because they don't sound like a Dream Theater/Porc Tree album. 

I accept and love music from all periods.  The thought of people writing off the history of prog (or music in general) is pretty sad.  You might be right, but I hope not. 

Gerinski wrote: It is ALL subjective, no matter how hard we want to defend our beloved "art".   Tell my girlfriend that The Gates of Delirium is a masterpiece and you will probably get an iron thrown at your face   (don't take me for a sexist, she does the ironing but I do a lot of housekeeping too!).   Surely she has her own tastes and definitions of "art", but get some more people like her to rate albums in PA and the average ratings will quickly change. If we have more or less consistent ratings for albums which many of us consider masterpieces it's only because we belong to a rather limited community with tastes sharing some "core" (or used to up to some time ago).   But the range and definitions of prog are changing, we see more and more newer interpretations of "prog", there's a growing share of prog-metal, post-rock, math-rock, post-metal, extreme tech-metal etc etc in PA. Wait for a few years and it's likely that the "masterpieces" of PA will have changed.

Well I don't know about that.  If a masterpiece is something with a history, then what I would predict is an additional batch of actual masterpieces added to what is already agreed-upon.  Even though "art" is subjective and taste is subjective, the consensus opinion on a release 30 or 40 years old does have some meaning.  The range of "prog" may widen, but it will not change completely: certain work will always be seminal, no matter what else gets added.

A masterpiece is.....................

Manuel wrote: This is the kind of thread that will bring everyone's opinion, which are quite diverse and many times opposing. With that in mind, this is my humble opinion:   I personally give 5 stars to the albums that I enjoy very much after quite a few listens, have great songs, very well written, arranged, orchestrated and performed, and they flow very nicely, providing an excellent listening experience.   As for a Masterpiece, I give that to a 5 star album that is also adventurous, challenging, unique, a milestone in progressive music history.

Forgive my confusion, but I thought giving an album 5 stars here automatically confers "masterpiece" status.  At least, that's how the ratings descriptions read to me.....

Just like in the UK now, you cannot find for love or money anyone who would admit to voting for Margaret Thatcher. Similarly, for 5 star masterpiece albums is anyone game enough to admit that they have handed these out to records where they consider some of the tracks are erm...boring, lightweight. filler etc ?

We rate waaay too high on this site - 5 star garlands are for freakishly/perversely brilliant music alone (rare)

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Possibly, though not necessarily. 

But what you might be ignoring is that 4 is no slouch!  4 means an "excellent" album, much better than just a good album.  It's not a slight to give an album 4 stars.  Honestly, some people act like a 3 (good) and a 4 (excellent) are somehow dissing the album.  Not true.  These two ratings should cover the VAST vast majority of albums that you like. 

For some people, 5 just means something a little extra....universal appeal, "standing test of time", groundbreaking, uniquely, along with personally mindblowing.

I think a new album could be given 5 stars, but the bar is higher.  I think you must believe it will become the things mentioned above, in time.  As the site's definition makes clear, it should be something more than just "another album you enjoy".

Yeah, Pekka, I think most people would love to have the 1/2 star thing here.  I personally don't need it, but I'd support it now, just because most users seem to want it and I see very little downside to it.  Other than the workload involved for those who would have to do it.  So that's one of those decisions best left to Max and his techie collabs.  I'm sure he knows there's lots of people here who want the 1/2 stars.

The best thing about it would be that it would decrease 5 star over-use, as well as bridging the difficult gap many people have from 3 to 4 stars.  Less handwringing over rounding decisions

Manuel wrote: Sorry, but as I mentioned, this is just my humble opinion, and the way I rate music in my own private collection. Maybe in P.A. 5 stars is a masterpiece, and for some other individuals too, and that's perfectly fine. I just spoke from a very personal perspective.

Ah, okay, that makes sense.

Edited by ergaster - September 04 2010 at 11:43

What is PA's top 10? What is Genesis's "Selling England ...." ? Why any sites (like PA) or any reviewers have Top 10 lists? What is their mean?  Is "Selling England..."  just 5 star album ? Who said "selling England....." is No1 and why? How many people vote to this album? What mean of No1? I think there are albums with higher rate in PA but "Selling England...." is No1. Why PA didn't make Top 10 lists for all genres and they put "Selling England..." on top of the list of Prog Rock's all genres? Maybe some of Prog fans didn't like Symphonic Prog and they like other genre. Note to "Selling England..." rate: 4.64 star-981 rating-75% 5 star AND (Essential : a masterpiece of Progressive Rock music)