French approve ban on burqas...

@Pat: sorry, I actually thought you meant that. Maybe I'm not very bright, I've been told that before.  Well, I don't know how much will this law will "solve", but it will send the few fundamentalists a strong signal. But really, this issue isn't major at all in France. People here are quite relaxed, and the integration policy has worked in general. Other countries have much bigger problems with the Muslim communities, like UK or Netherlands. If I remember well, Theo Van Gogh, Vincent Van Gogh last descendant, was killed on the street by cutting his throat exactly because he produced a critical documentary about women's right in the Dutch Muslim community. I don't see that possible in France... But if the situation would be similar to that, I think the measures taken would be different, according to the context.

BTW why is Firefox's spell check underlining "women's" when I write "women's rights"? Does Firefox also think that women should not have a genitive, meaning that women can't own anything? Now that's oppressive 

As far as I know, various veils and scarves have ancient tradition, but burquas hiding entire (female) body from forehead to toes is relatively new invention, perhaps a century old; and motivated more politically than religiously. I think woman in Kabul would welcome such a ban, including a few other ones, such is not being aloud to sing in public.

Such sinister laws are NOT imposed because of certain religion. They're monstrously skewed from good origins - Nietzsche's philosophical concept of ubermensch led to Nazism, Marx's idea that 'workers should controls productions'  led to socialism.

One of the Abrahamic religions - the Islam - is basically similar to many (dare I say all?) human religions - a belief in God, the idea of Love, a moral codex that is basically teaching not to steal, to respect the elderly, be a honest man. Let us not forget the Muslim word paved the way for some tremendous human achievements, such are math, astronomy and medicine; as well as great works of art and literature - while Europe was in the dark middle ages.

That being said, sacred texts could be interpreted in many ways  - varying from humane, tolerant, love-nurturing, to those oppressing Universal Declaration of Human Rights; just take a look in how many different ways Christianity could interpret The Bible.

I've read the Qur'an (I have three copies at home) and if anyone think something is inherently wrong in it as as set of moral codices , well, that's just plain wrong. It's interesting it acknowledges Jesus as a prophet (Muslim prophet of course - Allah simply means God, so a human being who believes in God following a certain codex is Muslim, no mystification here), also it states Muslims and followers of other religions should have respectful conversations and debates. I'm not a Muslim, so I take various chapters with a grain of salt - this book was written centuries ago, just like the Bible, so some things such are stoning homosexuals to death should be looked from the historical perspective.

My two cents.

Padraic wrote: You are not going to solve the women's rights issue in the Muslim world with this law.  You simply won't.

Do you imagine that anyone in France thought that by issuing a law concerning what happens in France they will help with women's rights in the Muslim world?

Padraic wrote: But there will be women, strange as it may seem to us non-Muslims, who are now forbidden to wear (their choice) the garments that are part of their heritage and culture - as much as that culture may be abhorrent to the average Westerner.

The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Sadly I would like for people to dress as they want to, but the problem with the burka is that is perfect for concealing a terrorist and his/her weapons.  Are there not a sufficient number of countries that will allow or even require you to wear one if you're a woman? I'm pretty sure terrorists would prefer trench coats, not something that greatly restricts peripheral vision. It greatly restricts everything... yet men force it on women... And we're supposed to defend their right to do so... Go figure.

harmonium.ro wrote: That article you posted sends the exact opposite message to the one you are trying to imply, Rob It says clear that women in Muslim countries want equality between sexes (meaning, equal rights for women), and they know this happens in the West. France shouldn't disappoint. Also, the fact that women in Muslim countries have other, more important, issues does not concern the situation in France, simply because those issue don't exist in France.

Well something good has come out of all this. It changes my halloween costume plans for this year. Originally I was going to go as Herman Munster and my wife was going to go as Lilly Munster. But I've changed my mind. I'll dress up in a burqa and be the woman and my wife can dress up as the arab man. Bit of a problem though. I'm 6 foot 3 and my wife is only 5 foot 7. It's going to look a bit strange but hey it's halloween everybody looks a bit strange on halloween.

The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Sadly I would like for people to dress as they want to, but the problem with the burka is that is perfect for concealing a terrorist and his/her weapons.  Are there not a sufficient number of countries that will allow or even require you to wear one if you're a woman? I'm pretty sure terrorists would prefer trench coats, not something that greatly restricts peripheral vision. It greatly restricts everything... yet men force it on women... And we're supposed to defend their right to do so... Go figure.

So you assume.  You didn't read the article I posted apparently.

Finnforest wrote: The T wrote: Epignosis wrote: Vibrationbaby wrote: When we go over to their countries we have to respect their customs and traditions and a good example is the cosumption of alcohol. If they want to come over to France, Canada, The United States etc. to live or visit they have to respect ours. It's cut and dry as far as I'm concerned. Some of these people come over to western countries for a  better life and we're prepared to giv it to them. What I don't understand is why they want to push their sh*t on us. Sounds like you could become governor of Arizona.  Sorry, Mel Gibson was recently nominated by the GOP...      Only if that King dude from the Black Panthers is the Dems candidate.  This guy calls for the killing of whites and white babies publicly, on tape, and it gets almost zero attention.    Doesn't support the narrative that only white people hate.

Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Sadly I would like for people to dress as they want to, but the problem with the burka is that is perfect for concealing a terrorist and his/her weapons.  Are there not a sufficient number of countries that will allow or even require you to wear one if you're a woman? I'm pretty sure terrorists would prefer trench coats, not something that greatly restricts peripheral vision.

Edited by The T - July 14 2010 at 11:58