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Snow Dog 
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 Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:03 |
 rogerthat wrote:
 By the way, just curious, did my later posts about Cinema Show pacify you or were you still looking for more?
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Not really.........but I've moved on now to new problems.
Edited by Snow Dog - July 11 2010 at 10:03
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rogerthat
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:04 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Not really.........but I've moved on now to new problems.
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Right, then! There's plenty to discuss about that song, trying to analyze it would probably produce a monolith of a post, but this is not the thread for it. Some other time.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:06 |
rogerthat wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Not really.........but I've moved on now to new problems.
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Right, then! There's plenty to discuss about that song, trying to analyze it would probably produce a monolith of a post, but this is not the thread for it. Some other time.
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I look forward to that.
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:20 |
rogerthat wrote:
This explains very logically why Stevie Wonder cannot be included in the Crossover database but still doesn't answer why his music is not prog, that's a separate question.  Nevermind! |
I don't. 
All I am concerned with is Crossover, other subgenres are someone else's problem. There are 50 other artists queuing up to be evaluated Crossover, I can only deal with them one at a time and imagine the chaos if we had to go through this 7-page justification process each time.
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rogerthat
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:23 |
Dean wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
This explains very logically why Stevie Wonder cannot be included in the Crossover database but still doesn't answer why his music is not prog, that's a separate question. Nevermind! |
I don't.
All I am concerned with is Crossover, other subgenres are someone else's problem. There are 50 other artists queuing up to be evaluated Crossover, I can only deal with them one at a time and imagine the chaos if we had to go through this 7-page justification process each time. |
But I guess that wouldn't happen with non controversial artists.  I don't dispute that this is a very controversial proposal and as Altaire himself said, there never was much chance of Wonder getting accepted, my questions on this thread have been purely academic. I don't usually have to wonder why something gets called jazz or classical, but I ask that a lot with prog, or is that only because I am such a newb to those two forms?
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:35 |
Probably because they are both umbrella terms that encompass a wide range of musical styles. The equivalent to Jazz and Classical is not Prog, but simply Popular Music. Therefore it is just as easy to classify Stevie Wonder, Genesis and Steely Dan as Popular Music as it is to classify Beethoven as Classical (if we assume that by Classical you mean Western classical music that emcompasses everything from Medieval through to Contemporary). The real question is whether Beethoven is Classical Era or Romantic Era, and within those still broad classification which school of Romantic and which period of his development (Bonn, Vienna etc).
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rogerthat
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:36 |
Dean wrote:
Probably because they are both umbrella terms that encompass a wide range of musical styles. The equivalent to Jazz and Classical is not Prog, but simply Popular Music. Therefore it is just as easy to classify Stevie Wonder, Genesis and Steely Dan as Popular Music as it is to classify Beethoven as Classical (if we assume that by Classical you mean Western classical music that emcompasses everything from Medieval through to Contemporary). The real question is whether Beethoven is Classical Era or Romantic Era, and within those still broad classification which school of Romantic and which period of his development (Bonn, Vienna etc). |
That explains it, thank you.
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:42 |
rogerthat wrote:
But I guess that wouldn't happen with non controversial artists. |
Dunno, let's give it a try.
Abarax, The Advancement, Amish, Tori Amos, Ananta, Antares, Tony Arnold, Arthur Ellis 2000, Autumn People, Boo, Tara Busch, Dave Cadman, Cap Outrun, Stewart Copeland, Distant Lights, Mark DuBerry, Sergey Dudin, Electric Sorcery, Aaron English, Fang Island, Floater, Freeway, Gio Gentile, Jason Havelock, Islands, Kiss Kiss, Guy LeBlanc, Ludus, Mar Aun, Marbin, Masters of the Airwaves, Mirror People, Vladimir Misik, Moonlight Sky, Patrick Moraz, Mytho, Sally Oldfield, Stefano Panunzi, Pedra, Michael Quatro, Jan Schelhaas, Sinthome, Sunday, Supernal Endgame, Minus the Bear, Thumpermonkey Lives!, The Tunesmith's Apprentice, Ted Turner and Whalefeathers.
One of those are controversial, so let's ignore her and move on to the other 49 - not all are complete unknowns, so I'm not being completely unreasonable
Opinions please, do each of these artists qualify for addition to Crossover Prog? Are each of them more or less Proggy than >>insert progband of your choice here<<?
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rogerthat
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 10:49 |
Other than Tori Amos, I am not familiar with any of these to the level to be able to comment on whether they should be here and whether in that case they should be in XOver. I guess collabs would have to often judge on samples (correct me if I am wrong) but I wouldn't want to do that personally. Based on the two albums of Tori that I have heard and love, Little Earthquakes and Under the Pink, not XOver.
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 11:01 |
rogerthat wrote:
Other than Tori Amos, I am not familiar with any of these to the level to be able to comment on whether they should be here and whether in that case they should be in XOver. I guess collabs would have to often judge on samples (correct me if I am wrong) but I wouldn't want to do that personally. Based on the two albums of Tori that I have heard and love, Little Earthquakes and Under the Pink, not XOver. |
None of us are familiar with all artists, and seldom as familar with those suggested to us as the person suggesting them is. Of course we evalate on samples, but if the samples are inconclusive we will hold off until more representative samples can be obtained. I have even gone as far as buying whole albums from eBay and Amazon of music I did not particularily like because I was uncertain based on the samples and needed to hear more. MySpace is probably the worse for judging Progressive artists because the tracks are often chosen to be the catchiest of a band's output (and no band is ever going to be added to a Progressive Rock site on the strength of a hit single ).
/edit: I did say that one artist is controversial and to ignore her 
Edited by Dean - July 11 2010 at 11:04
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chopper
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 11:46 |
Dean wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
But I guess that wouldn't happen with non controversial artists. |
Dunno, let's give it a try.
Abarax, The Advancement, Amish, Tori Amos, Ananta, Antares, Tony Arnold, Arthur Ellis 2000, Autumn People, Boo, Tara Busch, Dave Cadman, Cap Outrun, Stewart Copeland, Distant Lights, Mark DuBerry, Sergey Dudin, Electric Sorcery, Aaron English, Fang Island, Floater, Freeway, Gio Gentile, Jason Havelock, Islands, Kiss Kiss, Guy LeBlanc, Ludus, Mar Aun, Marbin, Masters of the Airwaves, Mirror People, Vladimir Misik, Moonlight Sky, Patrick Moraz, Mytho, Sally Oldfield, Stefano Panunzi, Pedra, Michael Quatro, Jan Schelhaas, Sinthome, Sunday, Supernal Endgame, Minus the Bear, Thumpermonkey Lives!, The Tunesmith's Apprentice, Ted Turner and Whalefeathers.
One of those are controversial, so let's ignore her and move on to the other 49 - not all are complete unknowns, so I'm not being completely unreasonable
Opinions please, do each of these artists qualify for addition to Crossover Prog? Are each of them more or less Proggy than >>insert progband of your choice here<<?
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I would have thought Moraz was a no-brainer.
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 12:24 |
^ dunno, never met the man.
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chopper
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 12:45 |
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I'll set up 'em up, you knock 'em in Dean.
Anyway, Moraz' time in Yes, Moody Blues etc would be enough to gain a foothold here but I would have thought his solo albums and his work with Bruford would qualify him
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 12:49 |
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^ we can only judge him on his solo output for inclusion into Xover. His work with other bands and artists would only count towards Prog Related really.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 13:38 |
Dean wrote:
^ we can only judge him on his solo output for inclusion into Xover. His work with other bands and artists would only count towards Prog Related really. |
The Story of I is surely Prog and Out In The Sun is pretty proggy too.
No Brainer..........
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jammun
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 14:36 |
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Voice of reason here, bringing enlightenment. For all arguing for or against Stevie, just listen to I Ain't Gonna Stand For It. What a great song, and that's a pedal steel there in the mix! And depending on my mood on any given day, any song with pedal steel is progressive, just by definition. I say this because I own one, and it's the most mind-bendingly complex instrument ever foisted upon mankind. Unfortunately, Stevie ain't the one playing that particular instrument.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Alitare
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 16:55 |
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Well, lets give up the ghost, fellers. It's clear ol' Stevie isn't getting in. That mud-in-the-stick, Dean, just wants to kill everybody's fun.
Actually, I fully comprehend why he isn't getting in, and in some ways, my feelings agree with yours, Deaner, I mainly enjoy the conversation these types of things usually bring about. His rejection doesn't make him any less of an artist, and that's something we both can comfortably understand.
It is funny that out of all those bands you mentioned, I ONLY know of Tori Amos. Even then, I've never taken the time to listen to her music.
I wonder how controversial it would be to suggest Pat Boone for Tech/Extreme...
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rogerthat
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 19:43 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
^ we can only judge him on his solo output for inclusion into Xover. His work with other bands and artists would only count towards Prog Related really. |
The Story of I is surely Prog and Out In The Sun is pretty proggy too.
No Brainer.......... |
Maybe but suppose I have never heard his solo albums? As Dean says, his background is not enough, that way Phil Collins would be a shoo in when his solo work is all pop.
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Dean
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Posted: July 11 2010 at 19:59 |
Alitare wrote:
It is funny that out of all those bands you mentioned, I ONLY know of Tori Amos. Even then, I've never taken the time to listen to her music.
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I'd only knew of 6 of them before they were suggested, and 3 of those I had not heard any of their solo output.
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Textbook
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Posted: July 12 2010 at 06:53 |
Let's talk about Dragonforce.
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