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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Album purchase links
    Posted: June 09 2010 at 10:50
As you know, band pages and album pages on PA have these built-in search engines for E-Bay and Amazon that display for us a lot of entries in order for us to have an easy shopping. Also, bellow the two search engines we can also find More places to buy .... music online (with links to Gemm and Doug Larson) and Buy ... & Prog Rock Digital Music online (with links to Amazon MP3 and eMusic).

Unfortunately, for many less known bands, with weak distribution, the links and the search engines can't provide actual products of that band, and prove themselves pretty useless, especially the search engines who fill the page with irrelevant results and make the page look ugly.

My suggestion is to implement the option for the users to add direct links to where the albums can be bought. I don't know how important the existing search engines and "buy" links are for PA, and I'm not suggesting to scrap them, at all. But I think that giving users the ability to add direct links (and maybe write some comments, too, like practical advice on how to buy there or what's his satisfaction with that seller) would give more accurate results and would give a real chance to small, underground bands.

What do you guys think?


Edited by harmonium.ro - June 09 2010 at 13:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 11:30
Good idea, but some problems are possible:
1. Duplicated links.
2. Non-actual links, if after some time the given store does not offer pointed albums.
3. Links to illegal downloads (who can guarantee they will not be added?)

Who will monitor these things?
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 12:01
Excellent observations.

For 1., one solution would be not to admit more than one link for the same domain. However, that may be a problem when the same site sells both vinyl and CD, for example, so that's two links for the same domain. But I think it is possible to set up a system to recognize the link if it was previously submitted. I mean, I'm that it is possible,  I'm not sure if that would be easy.
2. usually webstores don't delete a product page, they only add an "out of stock" notice.

For both 2. and 3., I think that regular users can do a good monitoring for this, just like they do for duplicated albums, wrong album info or album cover, dead videos, etc. And any Special Collab could update the links based on user reports.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 13:41
I use (and most norwegians) use CDON.NO for bying CDs and our biggest music store Platekompaniet (Rocordcompanie)is actualy quite good on progrock, not that they have a prog section but they have all the famous and also some rare bands at farly low prices (but most KC and Genesis have shockingly high prices)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 14:00
The built-in search links pay for the upkeep of the site and maintenance of the servers. Unsolicited links don't and would be open to spam and abuse. There is also the extra work involved in maintaining the links across 5,400 band and 28,500 album pages (validation, removal of dead links etc.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 15:10
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

I use (and most norwegians) use CDON.NO for bying CDs and our biggest music store Platekompaniet (Rocordcompanie)is actualy quite good on progrock, not that they have a prog section but they have all the famous and also some rare bands at farly low prices (but most KC and Genesis have shockingly high prices)

Whenever I buy from CDON the guys at the post office break the CD cases. Pinch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 15:46
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Unfortunately, for many less known bands, with weak distribution, the links and the search engines can't provide actual products of that band, and prove themselves pretty useless, especially the search engines who fill the page with irrelevant results and make the page look ugly.

What do you guys think?
 
For lesser known bands I generally go to the bands homepage and try and buy from there.
 
I never buy through the links from PA, occasionally I buy from the band site
 
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2010 at 16:32
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

I use (and most norwegians) use CDON.NO for bying CDs and our biggest music store Platekompaniet (Rocordcompanie)is actualy quite good on progrock, not that they have a prog section but they have all the famous and also some rare bands at farly low prices (but most KC and Genesis have shockingly high prices)

Whenever I buy from CDON the guys at the post office break the CD cases. Pinch


happend to me as well and when I orderd In the Glass House it took over Half a year for it arived in the mailAngry, maybe becouse they had to import it but enyhow and then they are rude enough to send me an Late Fee bil when they are so d**mn slow to get it shipped and put to my mailbox so I dont know when it arrives. and I don't have the time to sheck the mailbox evvery day to see if it have comed (i have also a bahceleor degree to take care off)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2010 at 06:57
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

I use (and most norwegians) use CDON.NO for bying CDs and our biggest music store Platekompaniet (Rocordcompanie)is actualy quite good on progrock, not that they have a prog section but they have all the famous and also some rare bands at farly low prices (but most KC and Genesis have shockingly high prices)

Whenever I buy from CDON the guys at the post office break the CD cases. Pinch


happend to me as well and when I orderd In the Glass House it took over Half a year for it arived in the mailAngry, maybe becouse they had to import it but enyhow and then they are rude enough to send me an Late Fee bil when they are so d**mn slow to get it shipped and put to my mailbox so I dont know when it arrives. and I don't have the time to sheck the mailbox evvery day to see if it have comed (i have also a bahceleor degree to take care off)


Hey guys,

For this kind of discussion I made this thread some time ago Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2010 at 07:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The built-in search links pay for the upkeep of the site and maintenance of the servers.


I didn't know that, sounds cool. As I said, I wasn't proposing to scrap them. However, for many underground bands, the search engines don't pay nothing because the albums don't appear on eBay or Amazon, so

- the engines show only irrelevant results so no one is clicking on them
- the engines show nothing at all

So my idea is to supplement the search engines, not to lose them. Thumbs Up

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Unsolicited links would be open to spam and abuse.


Adding purchase links would be an option in the "Add new album" and "Edit this entry" facilities and we know that, even though they are open to any registered user, they were never spammed (spammers target the forum) and the abuse was nothing that we couldn't handle (mainly bootleg additions, dubious compilations, etc.)

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

There is also the extra work involved in maintaining the links across 5,400 band and 28,500 album pages (validation, removal of dead links etc.)


The answer is: volunteer work. Just the like rest of work on PA is done. If I add an album, it's no big deal to also paste a link for direct purchase. Sometimes, when it's a free download album, I paste the link in the "Release information" field. I wasn't asking for a run-through of all the PA database in order to add purchase links, I was proposing to have this facility for those who want to use it.

Thumbs Up


Edited by harmonium.ro - June 10 2010 at 07:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2010 at 02:50
I can see this being nice for the smaller bands as harmonium.ro said. I think one great example would be www.progquebec.com. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2010 at 02:54
it's a very good idea,  PA's curse is its volume of artists


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 14:18
Interesting.

Would it be manageable by ADMINS/Collab. only ? I mean the list would be protected for spam reason...


Prog On !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 14:33
If we have the direct purchase link as part of the album information, then any user can add the link and also any user can edit out spam and / or abuse. From what I know this facility hasn't been spammed so we could give it a try.

Also, I think that making it possible to add multiple links would be a good idea, and the same for differentiating between links for digital download purchase and purchase of the physical album.

Thanks for taking this into consideration M@x Thumbs Up


Edited by harmonium.ro - June 18 2010 at 14:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:33
Nope. Can't get behind this one. Any user who can edit a link can edit in a spam / abuse. We spend enough of the day editing spam links out of the forum - to have them littered through 30,000 random archive pages is a fricking nightmare in the making. Any hacker could write a routine to do this in minutes. 
 
 
I also don't see the advantage in giving these suppilers free advertising.


Edited by Dean - June 18 2010 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:41
^ But users can already edit, and they don't spam - I didn't see this point being contradicted!

And by placing a link to purchase a product you're advertising the product, not the seller. Geek

Recently a guy from a band I am friends with visited his band's PA page. He was horrified. It was difficult for me to explain him what are all those commercial links that flood their page. At first they challenged him visually, then they bothered him because none had anything to do with his band. After that he asked he asked me to set up the proper links if I'm an "insider", and left. I thought he was going to be amazed and thankful, at the end I was feeling like an idiot... This is why I started this thread.


Edited by harmonium.ro - June 18 2010 at 15:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 15:52
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ But users can already edit, and they don't spam - I didn't see this point being contradicted!
 
They don't spam because we are not inviting them to come here and advertise their products - we don't make it easy to add links into any editable part of the database.
 
This will be a user editable link - it's an open invitation for abuse and misuse for anybody to add a link to wherever they like without verification/approval of the site owners or administration.

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:


And by placing a link to purchase a product you're advertising the product, not the seller. Geek
 
If you are advertising where to buy a product then you are giving a free advertisement for the person selling it. There is no ambiguity or clever playing with words here - if someone is selling the album they are the seller, if they are not paying for the link then it is free.
 
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



Recently a guy from a band I am friends with visited his band's PA page. He was horrified. It was difficult for me to explain him what are all those commercial links that flood their page. At first they challenged him visually, then they bothered him because none had anything to do with his band. After that he asked he asked me to set up the proper links if I'm an "insider", and left. I thought he was going to be amazed and thankful, at the end I was feeling like an idiot... This is why I started this thread.
You could have passed his question on to someone who could explain it for you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 16:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ But users can already edit, and they don't spam - I didn't see this point being contradicted!
 
They don't spam because we are not inviting them to come here and advertise their products - we don't make it easy to add links into any editable part of the database.
 
This will be a user editable link - it's an open invitation for abuse and misuse for anybody to add a link to wherever they like without verification/approval of the site owners or administration.


But if we implement what I'm asking there would be nothing new from what we already have now. So if we don't invite spammers now we won't be inviting spammers then. The links will be inactive, so the target won't receive any traffic from them. Links can be already added like that - I added myself download links for free released to some of the albums I've added. Was there any harm?

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:


And by placing a link to purchase a product you're advertising the product, not the seller. Geek
 
If you are advertising where to buy a product then you are giving a free advertisement for the person selling it. There is no ambiguity or clever playing with words here - if someone is selling the album they are the seller, if they are not paying for the link then it is free.

I see, you were stressing the free., not the advertising. So what you're saying is that no selling of prog albums should be done through PA if there's no profit for PA? I thought PA was a database, not an intermediate. Dead


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



Recently a guy from a band I am friends with visited his band's PA page. He was horrified. It was difficult for me to explain him what are all those commercial links that flood their page. At first they challenged him visually, then they bothered him because none had anything to do with his band. After that he asked he asked me to set up the proper links if I'm an "insider", and left. I thought he was going to be amazed and thankful, at the end I was feeling like an idiot... This is why I started this thread.
You could have passed his question on to someone who could explain it for you.


Ouch, am I expressing myself so bad today? What I meant is that I did explain him very well the situation, he just didn't think the PA page was doing his band much good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 16:28
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:


I see, you were stressing the free., not the advertising. So what you're saying is that no selling of prog albums should be done through PA if there's no profit for PA? I thought PA was a database, not an intermediate. Dead

You've twisted that ass-backwards, but yeah, okay - why sell albums at all? Is that our job too?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2010 at 16:32
^ That would be perfect, we'd get rid of those huge product search engines.
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