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Babak RP View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is PA biased?!!!
    Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:06
Hi guys. I'm Babak from Tehran,Iran. I must say,I feel honored to be among fellow prog-lovers. I'm a professional musician (bass player), although I play mostly pop music to make a living.
I've been following PA for a long time and have been enjoying it without feeling the need to post a comment or write a review. But the reason I decided to become a memeber, was PA's review and rating of an album called "After all" by the French band "Eye 2 Eye". This albums is among PA's best albums of 2009. So I decided to get this album,and believe me, it was really difficult. After listening to this albums,I have no choice but to say that it is one of the worst neo-prog albums of 2009 or maybe the last decade!
The songs and  the arrangements  are mediocre and the guitar player shows signs of narcissism, because he thinks he has to show off from the begining to the end of each song, unfortunately without having the ability to play anything interesting. After all, they sound like a high school band to me.
So, my question is, how come a band like this gets such promotion and excellent reviews in the PA?
And another thing; how on earth can you brand Pain Of Salvation's latest masterpiece "The Road Salt One" as progressive metal. Don't get me wrong; I like prog-metal, but this album has nothing to do with it.
BABAK RP, Tehran, 18.05.2010
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:15
understand PA is a work in progress (pun intended) and is a true collaboration among members, some love certain genres and come here mostly for a particular style and may rate certain albums highly




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progkidjoel View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:18
Yeah, difference in opinion is a big reason for that. Some people hate what you love and love what you hate; that's just how it is.

As far as PoS's new one goes, I haven't heard it yet, although bands are put into subgenres here, not albums, so prog metal makes sense for PoS considering the main amount of their output is prog metal.

Hope that clears those two up, and welcome to the site!
-Joel
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:18
Road Salt One isn't progressive metal, agreed, but the significant majority of PoS's discography is, which is why the band is categorized as progressive metal.
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Babak RP View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:33
Hi Joe.Thanks for your fast  reply. I Hope I'm not being misunderstood. I respect everybody's opinion and taste. My point is that the PA community should try to be more objective when it comes to writing reviews and rating albums, because it can mislead some people to go and spend their hard-earned money on an album which would disappoint them.
By the way, do you have any suggestions on new releases? 
Babak RP Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:38
No problem!
My two favourite albums of the year so far are Kayo Dot's Coyote (an avant-jazz album) and Alcest's Ecailles De Lune, a metal album.

I guess if you either like metal, and don't mind some black metal vocals, the Alcest album is a great one. Kayo Dot's Coyote is good if you like avant, or jazz in general

Here are some samples:


Alcest:
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Babak RP View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:38
Hi Stonebeard. Thanks for the reply.
But don't you think categorizing aband's new album based on it's history would be misleading to people not familiar with that band?
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 03:10
The PA database is simply limited to assigning genres to artists - so all the albums of an artists are labelled with the same genre, regardless of how the style of the artist changes over time.
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UMUR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 03:19
^yep thatīs one of the limitations of the site.
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 04:24
Who wants perfection?
 
PoS are in the right genre.
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 04:54
Just like me in newbie days! Smile
We all should develop Progarchives and welcome your honest opinion.

You will understand PA system anytime soon and will be one of good PA monitors. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 04:54
I totally agree. It's insane that practically any member is allowed to post a review with potentially false information on the quality of the album in question. I personally don't think that a site like this that is filled with subjective opinions and no facts has much credibility at all. Oh when will you all see that all those reviews are nothing but lies, nothing but filthy LIES!!! Stern Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 05:38
Pain of salvation is metal if you listen to Beyond the pale, Fandango and a lot of scarsick, this is metal but they are experimental and they enjoy the symphonic side of music. If you watch their DVD Ending Themes it s evident they are metal but like Opeth they wont be pigeonholed into one genre and thats why i like them among millions of others.
 
Reviews are bAsed on personal opinion and theres always a bias but if 50 people think its excellent you can believe that majority. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 09:18
Only one member I know would be biased when it comes to a PoS album... Though I won't mention any names Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 09:29
There's no such thing as objectivity when it comes to music. It all depends on what you like. Personally, I read all the negative reviews first before I rush out and buy an album. They usually give me a better idea of whether I will like an album or not. Fie star reviews generally don't offer as much useful information, IMHO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 12:43
People are biased.

There is such a thing as objectivity in music, but reviews and ratings show individual biases.  The album is only rated at 101 (all categories) for 2009.  Considering it's such a recent year that is not a really high ranking.  For just Neo Prog 2009, it's at 15 ( I think, I'd written all this out before but my son got at the mouse and I lost my post, so going on a memory a bit).  The ratings are between 2 and 5, and the reviews, there are only three of them (all collabs), are 3 stars, 4 stars, and 5 stars (or 5+ to use Marty's ratings method).  That is not many reviews and does not indicate much promotion.

I only put ant trust in reviews if I know that the reviewer has similar tastes to mine, and I try to check out myspace or a band website to sample music before buying.  Caveat emptor.  What's good for one person is not necessarily good for another (and with only a total of 12 ratings overall with a 3.90 average, and only three reviews ranging from 3 to 5, I wouldn't expect much unless I had very similar tastes to the people rating it most highly).  Reviewers also have their own ways to judge what;'s worthy or not, but mostly it's down to taste.  I commonly find reviewers to be too generous or not generous enough according to my tastes and my criteria (frameworks).

Maybe you should have got the 100 albums of 2009 that ranked higher than that one first (or, if Neo Prog is your thing, the albums that were ranked higher if you didn't already).

You could be the first to write a review expressing your displeasure with the album.


3.90 | 12 ratings
After All...
2009

Even though Neo_prog is not really my thing, I'm curious to hear some of the music now.  The band website is listed after the bio, and there is a link at the website to the myspace page.  There's plenty of music at the myspace page -- listening now.  http://www.myspace.com/eye2eyeband

I'm disappointed, I was prepared for something really bad according to my tastes.   I think it sounds pretty good (enjoyable). Not great for me, but not bad at all (rather too derivative to these ears and too "melodic"/ emotional for me, but that's taste).  No, not bad at all I think (I don't think I would rate it lowly, and I like it more than a lot of Neo Prog I've heard.  I've heard much, much worse music at PA.  I don't really like the vocals sometimes, and would prefer it if it had more eclectic instrumentation and sound (musically, it's not complex and does sound really commercial for a "Prog" band).  Quite retro. Mixed bag, but sounds pretty professional to me (rather lacking in originality and not as "experimental" as I've come to expect from French music -- would refer French vocals, or Kobaian... ;) ) Seriously I think it's good at what it is -- this coming from someone whose diet is not Neo-Prog or "melodic rock").  Nice.


Edited by Logan - May 18 2010 at 12:45
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Proletariat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 12:55
firstly "biased"
secontly how could PA not be?
honestly dont buy an album based on 3 reviews you know are not objective, and hey PA beats Pitchfork atleast.
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 13:25
I see the main criticism of Eye 2 Eye here as points of view as heard from a musician. Personally I'm not a musician, just a listener. And how much or not I merit any release as from my point of view as a guy who is a listener, lacking the theoretical and practical foundation a musician will have ;-)

Another point is that we have quite a few streaming mp3 samples up so that potential buyers can get a notion of what a band and an album sounds like. Not for all artists and albums yet, but this one is among the albums where a preview is available. Didn't that track reveal anything about the nature of the band?
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 14:09
Great to see a new member from Iran, Babak - welcome and peace & love from the UK. Not all of us listen to the politicians rattling swords constantlyHug

Of course, most reviews are somewhat biased - they are, after all, based upon the reviewers personal opinion of the work. But, this site is a fantastic tool when deciding what to buy or listen to for the first time. Generally, the series of reviews gives a true average rating for a work. Not always the case, but more often than not.
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:31
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The PA database is simply limited to assigning genres to artists - so all the albums of an artists are labelled with the same genre, regardless of how the style of the artist changes over time.


If only there was another site with a better way...Tongue


Wink
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