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maani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Essential" Prog
    Posted: April 30 2010 at 22:43
I wrote the following article, published on CultureCatch, a popular podcast site.  Wondering how many CDs I'll have flung at me for this list...LOL.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2010 at 23:49
Have you revised the list? 

Amongst many others I could think of, I would consider Soft Machine's Third, Magma's MDK (not my fave Magma, though excellent, but for list purposes), Herbie Hancock's Crossings or Miles Davis' Bitches Brew (while not a favourite Davis one of mine, it would be a good one to consider if it could fit one's progressive rock parameters), Faust's self-titled and Can's Tago Mago, Tangerine Dream's Zeit or the better-known Phaedra for list purposes, Univers Zero's debut would have been cool for your time-frame, and Comus' First Utterance and Fifty Foot Hose's Cauldron as another possibility if you had made it pre-69..  I would have included Amon Duul 2.

Of course with such limited space one can't represent many of the various styles we recognise at PA as Prog, nor does one have space to represent many countries, nor is there space to represent all of the decades (temporal limits was a good idea, but I would say that I don't think the list diverse enough to give a broad perspective of progressive rock and some are similar enough in style that the list risks becoming more tedious (rather anglo symph oriented). I do think you were right to impose temporal limitations for such a list, and it is seminal prog, but I would've tried to represent more diversity (maybe limited the years more, and I would've started pre-69...).


Edited by Logan - May 01 2010 at 00:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 04:59
My choices would have been differnt. If redeuced to only 12 albums, I would come up with this:

1) "In the court of the Crimson King" has to be included, of course, though "Lizard" is in my opinion the better album.
2) Of Genesis I would choose "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway".
3) Of Yes "Relayer", but I can see that many people would want to have their beloved "Close to the Edge" on the list.
4) Magma's "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandöh" is a must. Zeuhl is an important part of prog.
5) Just as Krautrock is, so I would have added "Phallus Dei" by Amon Düül 2.
6) Some prog electronic should be in it too; how about Tangerine Dream's "Rubycon"?
7) We need to have some avant-garde. "Eskime" by the Residents is my choice.
8) For jazz-rock I choose "The Inner Mounting Flame", if we go with the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
9) We need some hard prog too. "Sea Shanties" by High Tide.
10) And yes, we need some Canterbury. Gong's "You" seems about right.
11) Space Rock is needed too. "Warrior On the Edge of Time" by Hawkwind.
12) And finally some prog folk: Gryphon - "Red Queen to Gryphon Three".

I need not mention that many many other albums came to my mind too.


Edited by BaldFriede - May 01 2010 at 10:09


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 05:02
Agree with BaldFriede about Lamb.  Also, instead of the ELP debut, would have had Tarkus.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 10:39
the link doesn't work, i'd really like to read the text
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 10:40
The link works fine for me.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 12:41
The link works fine for me too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 14:56
Good article.

I haven't got time to go through the entire list, but I would choose Nursery Cryme for the Genesis album, and Red for KC. No list would be complete for me wiothout essential neo-prog, and the seminal example to me is Marbles by Marillion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 15:16
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Good article.

I haven't got time to go through the entire list, but I would choose Nursery Cryme for the Genesis album, and Red for KC. No list would be complete for me wiothout essential neo-prog, and the seminal example to me is Marbles by Marillion.

I have yet to hear some neo-prog which I consider to be essential, and definitely not Hogarth-era Marillion. But that's of course my personal taste only..


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 15:34
Great list overall.

Mine would of course be different, but that's me.  Tongue

Tales from Topographic Oceans over Close to the Edge

A Passion Play over Thick as a Brick

Red over In the Court of a Crimson King

Tarkus over Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (however, I wouldn't include ELP in my list at all).

The Power and the Glory over Octopus

Animals over Dark Side of the Moon

I could go with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway OR Selling England by the Pound about equally, but I tend to prefer the former personally (and by a hair...less heart).

Rick Wakeman wouldn't make the list, sorry.

Frank Zappa I'm ambivalent about, sorry again.

Ditto Nektar.

You of course forgot Kansas.  Stern Smile  I of course couldn't pick one album by them.  Big smile  I'd say if I had to pick one that was essential for progressive rock music........................................................................................ Song for America.

___

I would add some modern prog acts keeping the brilliance alive:

Mei by Echolyn (absolute brilliance).

Something by The Mars Volta...prog rock to a new dimension there.  I would suggest their debut for consistency, but really, I love all five of their studio albums to date.

I might add Univers Zero's Uzed because it is amazing.

Part the Second by maudlin of the Well.

Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream Theater

_________

That's twelve.  Approve


Edited by Epignosis - May 01 2010 at 15:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2010 at 15:53
got the link working now, somehow.

why only such a restricted time period? it should include some new stuff, because music, and prog have evolved very much since the 70s. i'd include something by opeth, mars volta and porcupine tree.

i see that this list is more of a "most historically singificant prog albums" rather than "best prog albums" though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2010 at 14:45
Not a bad list at all, but it could use much improvement.
 
For starters, I'd replace ELP's debut with Brain Salad Surgery - I think it better captures the bombast and musical ability early prog had to offer.
 
Nothing against The Moody Blues, but I think they'd really fit more into a list of heavily influential and innovative albums than essential ones.  Maybe replace Threshold with Hamburger Concerto by Focus; a prime slice of instrumental symph prog would make the list better.
 
Nektar wasn't a bad choice, but some bands (namely, Pink Floyd) deserve more than one spot on this list.  Replace Recycled with Wish You Were Here, which I think is Floyd's best work.
 
Wakeman's Myths and Legends was a nice touch.  Glad to see it made it on here.
 
Most of all, I was apalled at the lack of American prog - that is to say, Kansas - on this list.  I'd make some room by bumping off Zappa (not because he doesn't deserve to be on there, but because I just don't like him) and replace it with Song for America or Leftoverture - or heck, maybe even Point of Know Return
 
Oh, and let's not forget about RUSH!
 
If I were to make my own list of essential classic prog albums, it'd go something like this:
 
1. Close to the Edge
2. Wish You Were Here
3. Selling England by the Pound
4. In the Court of the Crimson King
5. Brain Salad Surgery
6. Dark Side of the Moon
7. 2112
8. Hamburger Concerto
9. Fragile
10. Song for America
 
Again, that would just my my personal list.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2010 at 15:00

Like everybody I have my own favourites by the bands you list (Lamb, The Wall, Going for The One etc).  But the ones you list seem fair enough - Except like Epignosis I wouldn't have any Rick Wakeman (Solo stuff just doesn't do anything for me.  So Caravan or Hawkwind or Gong would be in His Capeness' place.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2010 at 00:07
Thanks to all so far for their thoughtful comments.  At least no one has thrown CDs at my head yet!  LOL.
 
Please keep two things in mind about the list.  First, one is "turning on" a neophyte to prog.  So some of the choices may not be the greatest albums per se, but fit the criteria for learning about prog.  (Hence, my choice of Myths &  Legends for the reasons I gave.)  Second, I did offer second choices - though even here, I was absolutely torn (e.g., Nurseyr Cryme vs. The Lamb).
 
I do want to recognize Idiot Prayer's comment that, "I see that this list is more of a 'most historically singificant prog albums' rather than 'best prog albums' though."  That is correct: as the title notes, it is "essential" (for learning about prog), not necessarily "best" (a word I never used).
 
Finally, a shout-out to BaldFriede: it's been a very long time!
 
Peace.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2010 at 00:33
I've got some work to do, then! I've only got four on that list: ITCOTCK, Close To The Edge, Dark Side Of The Moon, and Selling England By The Pound.
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2010 at 04:01
IA (Maani) Finally, re PFM, they will be included in my list of foreign prog - indeed, if KC's In The Court can be said to be the nearly single-handed progenitor of English-speaking prog, PFM's Storia di in Minuto and Per un Amico (both released in 1972) are almost unarguably the progenitors of a huge swath of European prog. (Museo Rosenbach's "Zarathustra" is also up there.)

I don't know what Europe means to an American, but this is just plain wrong . France and Germany had their own scenes and were releasing advanced progressive rock years before PFM debuted. Did anyone know about Storia di un Minuto and Per Un Amico outside of Italy?

Everyone not from the US or UK are foreigners, and we'll get our own top twelve!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2010 at 23:16
Rocktopus:
 
I would be very happy to be educated re late 60s/early 70s prog in France and Germany.  Thanks.
 
Peace.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2010 at 23:19
Silly geese, all prog is essential

Except for Marillion, goddang I hate that band
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2010 at 01:51
One glaring ommission for me is Aphrodites Child '666'  which is a monster of a concept album.Also no prog electronica like say Tangerine Dream (ie Ricochet), and no heavier prog like say Rush 2112.So presumably sticking mainly to symphonic prog?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2010 at 17:08
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Rocktopus:
 
I would be very happy to be educated re late 60s/early 70s prog in France and Germany.  Thanks.
 
Peace.


I and others, had a similar complaint when you posted this exact same list about three years ago, so I'm doubting your genuine interest in educating yourself. But if you are: Use PA. All the information you want is here. 

Surely you must have noticed myself and others mentioning something like this the first time:

Canterbury, Kraut, Electronic, RIO and Zeuhl, Indo/Raga are not included, but you still managed to find space for a Richard Wakeman solo and Klaatu, after already having included Yes, and a couple too many (link doesn't work right now) of the biggest UK-prog bands. Incredible!

I understand that there isn't room for the most experimental or every single subgenre in a beginner's guide like the one you made. But no Canterbury or Kraut? Even mags like Mojo, Q, Uncut, and Classic Rock includes Gong, Soft Machine, Amon Düül II, Can and more often than not: Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Faust, Goblin and Magma in their progspecials/lists.

Finally, because I'm really a very nice, peaceloving guy: Kudos for not including Kansas!
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